How to Be Actionable and Move Forward With Your Exit With Kelsie Marks

Are fear and doubt holding you back from making a pivot in your career? Today’s guest shares how shift services can be the jump start you need as you move into a new career.

This week Ali and JoDee sit down with returning guest, Kelsie Marks. Kelsie is a former preschool teacher and school counselor who now works for Education Exit, one of the fastest growing teacher career transition firms in the industry. Together, they’ll discuss why the lack of action is still action and how to move forward from that, how Educated Exit helps teachers find roles that fit their goals and values, and why investing in shift services can truly benefit anyone. 

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Website
https://www.teachershiftpodcast.com/

Episode Transcriptions
https://www.teachershiftpodcast.com/blog

Transcript

Ali  0:06  
Teachers are natural innovators, entertainers and problem solvers. They dream of growing old into the profession, teaching their kids kids. But sometimes career goals shift, and that makes opportunities outside of the classroom seem intangible questioning, who am I if I'm not a teacher? I'm your host, Ali Simon. 

JoDee  0:29  
And I'm your co host, JoDee Scissors. 

Ali  0:32  
And this is Teacher Shift.

JoDee  0:43  
You know, it's time to make an exit. But you're struck with fear and doubt. Maybe you can't find a starting point. Today's guest takes us through shift services so you can be actionable and feel accomplished as you work towards your next career. 

Ali  0:59  
Today, we're joined by Kelsie marks. Kelsie is a former preschool teacher and school counselor who left education for edtech. When she realized edtech wasn't the best career decision for her. She set out on a mission to help other educators not make the same mistake. She now oversees all professional document writing and marketing at Educated Exit, one of the fastest growing teacher career transition firms in the industry. Welcome again to the show, Kelsie.

Kelsie  1:29  
Thank you so much for having me. I'm excited to be here.

Ali  1:31  
Yeah, you're one of our few second time guests. 

JoDee  1:35  
Yeah, yeah, repeat guest. It seems like we need like those like coats that they have on SNL where they have a repeat host. We need like some sort of like acknowledgement that we have a repeat guest. We're really excited to have you on today, in between us interviewing you now and the last time, we have definitely been following your work and learning so much from you. And just have a really great appreciation for how actionable you are, when it comes to educating educators on their exit. And we like to keep up with professionals that really are in tune with what a teacher might be feeling, but also the next steps that they might take. And here on our podcast, we like to share the stories of people that have made those transitions to feel that connectio,n to feel heard. And to know that there are people that have experienced the same things as you, and there are people and professionals that can also help you with that transition. So thanks again for being here.

Kelsie  2:41  
Yeah, thank you again for having me.

JoDee  2:43  
Yeah. So on the topic of being actionable. We know that one of the many reasons that teachers are reluctant to make a shift or exit is because they experience just a great deal of fear. They come from a profession that's very consistent in terms of salary. They know their schedules. You can know a school calendar a year in advance for the next year. So there's a lot of planning that goes into that type of career. And we see and we chat with a lot of teachers offline, too, that are full stop on being actionable because they are afraid. Do you see that type of client often?

Kelsie  3:28  
Yeah, I see a wide variety of clients, I see clients who are really crippled with that fear, like you said. And I also see clients who are really on the other end of that spectrum, and have kind of worked through that fear, to get to a place of knowing like, I can't do this forever. I don't know how to get out. But I know I need help getting out.

Ali  3:51  
So when someone is in that stage where they are still scared, and they are still nervous, what kind of advice would you give to a teacher who has that inclination to leave the classroom for whatever reason, but they're nervous? And we talk about it, there's, you know, some risks, but there's also a lot of rewards out there, too.

Kelsie  4:11  
The number one thing that I say to people is lack of action is still an action. Right? And so, yes, it's hard to leave, trust me. I know. I've been there. It's a very hard decision to make. And you two can attest to that as well. Making that final decision of okay, I am going to take the steps in order to leave education is scary. It's going to push you to really look at your value system. It's going to ask you to confront some really deep things about your identity. But what you need to know about that fear is number one, everyone has experienced it at some point. It's very normal. And number two, fear and that fear of taking action and that fear of what's next is likely holding you back from more or better feelings of accomplishment, of professional growth, of financial growth. And really when you're able to work through that, and I'm not saying everyone can do it within a matter of days or a matter of hours, but when you're able to work through that fear, and kind of get to that other side of now is the time for me to take action, many more doors will open up for you.

JoDee  5:31  
I can see how your counseling background would be beneficial with these types of services. You definitely have this training to be able to hear different types of concerns, and be able to lend advice and really hone in on an individual and not kind of have just like this blanket approach to something. It really sounds like you get to know your, your clients. You understand what they need. And then you yourself take action. And I love that that part of maybe your teacher self or your counselor self can come into play in this new role that you play. And so, on the topic of transitioning services, I don't know if a lot of people even know that that's even available. That that's an option for them. There's so many guests that we have, have interviewed that have said, you know, I did make the transition. I did it. I achieved it. But like, I really wish I had gone a different route. I wish I had reached out to a resume service, a former teacher to help me because it would have helped them kind of expedite that process a little bit. And they have a bit of regret. Ali's over here. 

Ali  6:48  
We had, we had a whole episode recently that I shared my story about my newest transition. And yeah, I engaged in professional services. And it definitely the word that you used expedited the process, right? If I had had to, you know, customize every single thing myself, I would have, you know, been mulling over it for a couple of days. You know, I had a thought partner in that process, it worked out really well. And I just think it is worth it. I mean, it's an I, I'm gonna use the word, it's an investment, but it is an investment in yourself. And I think you have to be ready for that right? You have to be ready to be at that stage where you're like very serious about it. You're ready to get started. And maybe you just you need someone to hold your hand. You need a thought partner. You need someone to think through these things. So I think that's where the you know, career transitioning services can really be helpful to teachers who are interested in making a shift. 

JoDee  7:48  
And on that word of investment just before you say anything Kelsie. So that that word investment to me is like such a big word, because we use it in the education system as if you take this course and get this certificate, or if you go do this PD, you're investing. You're really investing in your repertoire. You're not really investing in something that will grow your long term financial situation, at least not in big quantities. It might be like a paygrade up. But that's kind of a word that we, we kind of tackle and talk about all the time is how do we get others to understand the investment of a transition service? Are the benefits of it, to see an outcome that they really, really feel happy with?

Kelsie  8:43  
Yeah, so what I tell a lot of people is you invested in your education to get to being a teacher, right? And most people will say yes. And then I say, you invest in services, you invest in professional advice to enter into retirement after teaching likely. And that's not something that you hesitate about generally. So how do you get from entering into the field and retirement, to retirement, I should say, and not invest in professional services to help you grow exponentially? And when you frame it like that people often have a light bulb moment. Because many educators that I work with, they say, Well, I entered into the field, and I thought it was going to be my forever career. And now I just can't do it anymore. And so a lot of times I'll return the conversation. I'll say, So then how do you get to the next phase? Because you've invested to get there. And you've invested up to this point in retirement. But how are you going to invest to get to the next phase of your career? To get all the way to that retirement phase?

Ali  9:56  
That's a really great way to look at it. It's just another step on your journey. And I think that we kind of, I mean, I say this, it's like a real thing, we have guilt. We have teacher guilt. I have mom guilt. I have all these different types of guilt that I have. But I think once you get to the point of acceptance of, of you know where you are, and you're ready to take the next step, that it's a part of that journey that can really help you. And I think, you know, the intro for today's episode is a perfect example. You knew the teaching school counseling was not the right place for you anymore. And a lot of people talk about going into ed tech, right? So they're like, Oh, I'm gonna go into ed tech is like, kind of like education, and I can use my same skills. They'll understand me. But that is not the perfect fit for everybody like. And so, you know, wanting to like to engage in some sort of service, you do it as much as you can yourself, but then to know, like, what are the fields that I could move into? What's something that maybe isn't super education related, but all of my teacher brain skills would be great, and would work really well in this field? And so that's kind of where I want to go with you is what are the fields that teachers are transitioning to that you've noticed in your work? And maybe how do you help them identify, you know, outside of like, a, an ed tech or curriculum design or instructional design? How do you help them navigate where they might want to go next? 

Kelsie  11:27  
Yeah, so at Educated Exit, we really focus on something called Career Clarity. And I'm a big proponent of really looking inward at yourself, looking at your value system, looking at your worldview, looking at the experiences that you've had both inside and outside the classroom. I don't think it's fair to prescribe educators like a 30 question quiz from a third party website to give them a career. I don't think that does anyone justice. But I think that when you can really sit down and look inward, and maybe start having some hard conversations with a third party coach, or your spouse, or a friend who knows you really well, your mom, that will bring up some really deep feelings about your value, your identity, what skills you have, what you like to do, what you don't like to do. And from there, you can really start building out and exploring careers or jobs that allow you to use those skills.

JoDee  12:39  
I'm thinking about this aha moment that I had on one of your reels, or maybe it was LinkedIn posts, where you had mentioned that edtech is not a job. It's an industry. And so teachers will come to us and say, I want I want to apply for an edtech job. And I'll say, Well, what job like, what specific job are you referring to? So do you help them kind of unpack all those things in order to provide that more specific path for them, where they finally can say, within edtech, I want to apply for this type of job or this type of job?

Kelsie  13:21  
Yes, that's exactly what we do. So we give them a values evaluation of skills evaluation. It's not anything like a quiz, or like a third party site that they can go to. It's something that we have developed internally. They're are questions that we have developed internally. And it helps them really, like I said, have those tough conversations, and have those maybe aha moments like you talked about, where they can really take a step back and examine all of their professionalism and all of their professional skills from a different light.

Ali  14:00  
 I want to go back to something that you mentioned that happens during this process, which is that it's very values driven. And we've had another guest on the show, another I don't know, two timer, Eric Garcia, who talks about how values have a lot to do with also your financial planning and your financial wellness. And so it's like, values are really key to who we are as people and like the big decisions that we're going to make in our lives. You need to be in tune with your values. And I think sometimes we're just honestly so overwhelmed. Like, we're just like, I don't even know what I want anymore. Like, what are my values? And so it's such a good exercise to really think about what your values are. How do they align with maybe the teaching profession. Like is this a good alignment for your value system? Maybe it is. Maybe you just need to make an internal shift. Change what grade you're teaching change what you're doing inside of the school system. Maybe you need to go and maybe you want to be a school counselor, right? Something different. But uh, other times, you might realize that our values are taking us in a different direction. Maybe it means that I want to have a lot more flexibility in my schedule, because I need to due to family obligations or family wants and desires, right? It's just such a big conversation that I oftentimes think gets overlooked. And the fact that you've brought it up. Eric Garcia and his episodes. Like that, actually the first episode with him when he said that I was like, Oh, my gosh, you're so right. 

JoDee  15:28  
Well, and also like, as teachers, we think of ourselves, and the society thinks of ourselves as like, our values are to be servant leaders. Our values are to give all of us to others and not think of ourselves. So when someone says, Well, what are your values? I know, I initially was thinking, like, I want to make a social impact. I want to be able to give back to the community. And then I didn't think about those other type of value questions that could lead me into a role that also is true to who I am. And so I think one of the challenges, internal challenges, that teachers have is expanding their value system beyond what they immediately know, and what they've been conditioned to know within the education system.

Kelsie  16:21  
Yeah, so you bring up a really valid point. Many times when I speak with educators, the very first time they say, I want to do something in education. Or I want to make an impact. Or I don't want to give up the mission of working with students. And when we go through kind of some more of their values, and we talk about, you know, what it is that's driving them out, at usually at some point, and it's usually not the very first thing, but they'll say, Pay. And not everybody, but like I said it, it does come up. And when we talk about, you know careers, where you're still working with students, where you're wanting more flexibility, but don't want to give up the mission of education. Sometimes they come back and they say, Well, I don't think that's going to work for what I want. And I'll say to them, you know, then it's really time to take a hard look at your values. Because if you still want to work with students, but you want to be able to be fully remote five days a week, those two things may not really line up right now. 

Ali  17:23  
Right. That's a hard a hard pill to swallow. I think it's that, unfortunately, a lot of those types of roles, they're not the highest paying jobs, right. So that's like one thing, it might not align with your financial needs. But also it is hard to have that flexibility when you are working with students, right? Because it requires like the one on one or the group setting. So I think it's good that you're able to help them examine that. And I think that's one of the tricky things for JoDee and I is that we get a lot of people who ask us about transitions, and they want to ask us questions. And we're really experts in what we have transitioned into. Like, we know our jobs really well. But we don't know all of the jobs out there. That's why we started the podcast. We wanted to learn more about teachers and where they transition to. So I think it's so great to be able to have like a sounding board. A person to talk through these things with if you're really not sure. And you know, it seems like a really great option to potentially engage in in some type of services or at a minimum a please follow Kelsie because she gives so much great free advice and free content on like LinkedIn, Instagram, etc, etc, that I'm learning stuff all the time also. 

JoDee  18:37  
And you've grown a lot like you, I mean on TikTok, Instagram, LinkedIn, like you have really shown a lot of growth. And you're you are this voice of teachers who can't necessarily say these things out loud, but they need someone else to hear it, and validate, and give them something else to think about, to discuss. And I really love how you have grown. And I think it's a reflection of the state of education right now. The constant turnover of teachers. But also the fact that many people are coming to a pivotal point in their career, where they've decided I cannot do this anymore, even though it was what I had in sight for the rest of my life. But I just I can't do it anymore. And so has that growth that you have seen. What does that impact been on your business? And what have you learned through the process of this type of business growth that you've experienced?

Kelsie  19:41  
Yeah, so touching on the growth for a second. I think when I was first on this podcast, I had like 30,000 followers on LinkedIn. I wasn't on Instagram or TikTok or anything like that. And now, fast forward, what a year, maybe two years. I've got over 100,000 followers across all social platforms. The Educated Exit team has over 100,000 subscribers to our newsletter. We have grown exponentially. And I think a lot of that, like you said is people are at this really pivotal moment and they don't know where to go. They just know that they can't do this anymore. And I get messages every single day saying thank you for speaking up. You're so inspiring. Thank you for doing this. And many times when I follow that up with people, they say like, but I don't know what to do next. And that's okay. It's okay if you don't know what to do, but it's not okay to stay stuck. And so that's why I try to provide as many free resources or as much free content as possible, so that people know, number one, I am your advocate. I have been there. I know what it feels like. And number two, I am here to help you. Like, whatever you're feeling, I've probably felt that myself. So never feel like a burden or anything along those lines for reaching out and asking for help. 

JoDee  21:06  
And through this process, do you kind of see evolving trends in terms of like roles that are coming available? Types of roles that teachers want? The ones that they like that can I guess more easily land? Are there things that you observed, and your services that help you fine tune what you're doing to be able to, you know, really meet the needs of your clients?

Kelsie  21:32  
Yes. One thing I want to touch on first is that there's no such thing as an easy career transition. You are going to have to put in time and effort and work and likely make some sacrifices. So that's one thing I want everyone to be completely clear on is that it doesn't happen overnight. Next thing in terms of roles, yes, there's always like the top five, top six roles that educators are wanting to transition into. But over the growth of Educated Exit, we've found that teachers transition into a lot of different things. I mean, I've had people transition into like, fraud protection at like a credit card company. I've had people transitioning to being a background investigator. I've had a fertility coordinator, adoption coordinator. I've had creative directors at marketing agencies. I mean, you name it, like, once you're able to sit down and really evaluate, like I said, your values and your skills, really kind of the sky's the limit in terms of what roles you can do next, and what fits with those values and skills.

JoDee  22:41  
I love that that's such a great way to end our episode today, that the sky's the limit for teachers. And I truly believe that I think the teacher brains skills that we learn, they enable us to go into, honestly, probably any profession that we want to go into. Might need a little bit of extra training for some specialized professions. But we know that we're great learners also. So yeah, I love hearing about really just this growth for you, professionally, and also like the accessibility to resources like this for teachers. Because I think, for those of us who transitioned a while ago, you know, these things were not so readily available. And so it is really nice to have access to this type of information in these types of services. So, we're so glad to have you on the show again. If you'd like to connect with Kelsie, you can find her on Instagram, Twitter, LinkedIn, and TikTok, all linked in our show notes. And now you'll be able to find Educated Exit on the teacher shift website. As you learn from today's episode, Educated Exit offers services on how to clarify, target and launch a career outside the classroom. Thanks for listening.

Speaker 1  22:45  
Are you interested in suggesting a topic for Teacher Shift? Being a guest or recommending a guest? Please see the episodes page on our website to make a submission. And if you'd like to write for us, see our blog page. If you liked Teacher Shift, give us a five star rating and follow us on Instagram, Facebook, Apple podcasts, Spotify and Amazon music. Today's episode was written and recorded by me, Ali Simon and my co host, JoDee Scissors. Executive produced by Teacher Shift. Produced and edited by Emily Porter. Original Music: Emoji byTubebackr.