Planting Your Skills in Higher Education

Today, Ali and JoDee are joined by Wendi Iacobello, an educator with over a decade of professional experience in North Carolina’s public education sector who now works in instructional design. Together, they will discuss teacher guilt when making a career transition, the impact of instructional design on education, and how a teacher can still make an impact even if it’s not directly with young students. 

Connect with Wendi:
Wendi’s Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/strength4spouses/

Wendi’s LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/wendihuskinsiacobello/

Links mentioned:
The Bautista Project: https://www.thebautistaprojectinc.org/

USO: https://www.uso.org/

Dr. Luke Hobson: https://drlukehobson.com/

Connect with Ali and JoDee:
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/teachershift
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/teachershift
Teacher Shift LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/teacher-shift
Ali’s LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/alisimon/
JoDee’s LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jodeescissors/

Website
https://www.teachershiftpodcast.com/

Episode Transcriptions
https://www.teachershiftpodcast.com/blog

Transcript

Ali  0:06  
Teachers are natural innovators, entertainers and problem solvers. They dream of growing old into the profession, teaching their kids kids. But sometimes career goals shift, and that makes opportunities outside of the classroom seem intangible questioning who am I if I'm not a teacher? I'm your host, Ali Simon.

JoDee  0:29  
And I'm your co host, JoDee Scissors.

Ali  0:32  
And this is Teacher Shift.

JoDee  0:43  
Teachers are known to be a Jack or Jill of all trades, so you might feel a little stumped when deciding which transition path to take. Today, our guest is an educator with lots of trades and skills. She'll share with us how she navigated multiple shifts with all her teacher talents.

Ali  1:01  
Wendi Iacobello holds an MA in Educational Media with a concentration in online learning and professional development, and a BS in Early Childhood Education. She has over a decade of professional teaching experience in North Carolina's public education sector. Wendi also has experience in a variety of contexts, ranging from working with adults with disabilities, to incarcerated learners and community college students. Currently, she has been an instructional designer for the last four years. Welcome to the show today, Wendi.

Wendi  1:35  
Thank you for having me.

Ali  1:37  
It's such a privilege to have you on the show, and get to introduce you to our audience. One thing that I love about your experience is that I've noticed your professional work you've... you're really a jack, or shall I say, Jill, of all trades, with your professional work experience. You have done such a variety of things under the umbrella of education, instruction design now and I love that about your resume and really where you are right now career wise. So I'm just wondering if you can tell us a little bit about how you became such a Jill of all trades, and how you ended up where you are now? 

Wendi  2:15  
Well, my career in teaching actually began in the community college world in higher education. And I started teaching classes bilingually to students pursuing an early childhood associate degree. And that was my very first teaching job. And it was really scary to not only be teaching for the first time, but to be teaching in dual language. That ended up being such a beautiful experience and really helped propel my career in the education industry. And but it started right there in that moment. And as I got more and more experience as an adjunct, teaching, I decided that I wanted to teach in the public school system. So I did that as a TA in Middle School Special Ed and then got my certification and taught in high school special ed, but only for one year as a first year teacher. And I just decided that higher ed was a better fit for me. So after that first year, as a first year teacher, I went and pursued more responsibilities in teaching at the community college. And that's how I got into teaching adults. And in the Com Ed program in North Carolina, that's a place where a lot of high school graduates of occupational course of study go into those classes for more career skills and that sort of thing. So worked in that realm, in addition to teaching early childhood classes, and then found my way into teaching adults who had dropped out of high school, pursuing their high school diploma in this alternative way. And I just loved, loved teaching adult learners so much. And that experience, again, just bloomed and allowed me to really dive deep into the adult education world.

Ali  4:07  
You shared that you really felt like your place was in higher ed, in terms of when you spent one year in the classroom. And I heard you say after that you really love teaching adults. So was that the main impetus for your move back to higher education was that you just really missed teaching adults or was there something else about higher education that was calling you?

Wendi  4:26  
I think it had a lot to do with my employer in higher education in that moment. I really loved the community college that I worked for, at that point in my career. Loved the opportunities that I was given there as a professional and I just felt like I was at home. And in the classroom environment with adult learners and my students were ages 18 through 60s, and also from all different types of countries and not just the United States. So, I really enjoy the variety of people that entered my classroom. The diversity of of all of my students really taught me a lot. And even in teaching adults completing their high school diploma, there are always students in my classroom with special learning accommodations. So having that background and certification and special education was really helpful for those moments. And, and I really enjoy the challenge of working with a new type of student with a new, specific need, whether that be for learning difficulties, or second language learners, things like that. That challenge always teaches us something new.

JoDee  5:43  
I see that a lot among some of my educator peers is that they, you know, they start their career working with children, and they eventually start, you know, collaborating with their teammates, other people in the building, and then they realize, maybe my calling right now is to work with adults. Maybe it is to be a teacher of being a teacher, or to work with an older group or an older audience. I've seen teachers go from the classroom, to staff development, to training teachers, to even college like yourself, where it's an adult environment. But learners are learners, as we say here, on the podcast, that despite what age you may teach, everybody is a learner. And sometimes we, we like those odd, there are certain audiences that we like a little bit more, or we connect with a little bit more. And I love hearing that from you. When you are moving through these transitions, and we do a little survey before we interview our guests. And I noticed on yours that you had marked guilt on there. And I wanted to unpack that a little bit. And knowing your story now, because I didn't know it beforehand. Why did you mark that? And when, when was the guilt felt? Was that moving from community college to early childhood? Was it the reverse? Where did that start to come about?

Wendi  7:15  
The guilt was I felt like at the time, before I walked away from the classroom, I was already in my graduate program kind of had like a vision for what I wanted to do next. And I knew that kind of pulling outside of the classroom at some point would be a good move. And after talking with some people in my department, and kind of what the needs of my department were, I kind of saw myself shifting into more of that, like staff development kind of role in the future and just pulling out of the classroom. However, some life events in my personal life caused me to walk away a lot quicker than I wanted to. So I think that's where the guilt comes from. And if you look at my Instagram, it's no secret. It's, it's all over some certain years of my Instagram account of what those moments were. And, you know, when you're, when you're in grief, like are was at that point in my life, you don't want to be in front of people, having to put a smile on your face and fake it. And I was in some really heavy, deep grief at that time in my life. So I had to step away from the classroom a lot sooner than I had anticipated. So that's where that guilt comes from. And, you know, I felt so connected with my students. I really wanted to see all of them through till their graduation day. But again, having to step back and say... I always told myself when I joined the education profession, that if I got to a point where I wasn't able to give my students 100%, really 110% of myself up there in the front of the classroom, then it was time to step away. And at that point in my life, when I was deep in grief, I just felt like I'm not giving them my very best foot forward. So I need to step away. And that's what I did out of respect to my students and their personal learning and growth and also out of respect to myself to give myself the privacy I needed to grieve privately. And that was also what made kind of working behind the scenes really appealing at that point. So I wouldn't have to miss out on anything in my career. But I could kind of be hidden back here behind the scenes and, you know, deal with my grief as long as it took to get through it.

JoDee  9:31  
I'm sorry for the grief that you endured during that time. But it sounds like you were very self aware of what was going on with you and what you needed to be able to make those decisions. And it sounds like also that it wasn't interfering with the transition you needed to make to help yourself, to grieve privately, to make sure that someone was put in in the place of you to ensure 110% was being given to those students until you found your footing to be able to give 110% somewhere else. So that's, that's one of the things that, you know, we see from our, our listeners is that sometimes guilt does hold them back, and how can they build the courage to be able to make a transition, even if they're experiencing really, really big feelings.

Wendi  10:24  
And I think what scared me in that moment was walking away and not having anything else lined up for myself and walking away from something that I loved so very, very much. And I knew one of your questions wrapped around my identity as a teacher, that role that I was in, in the classroom was a great, huge part of my identity. And it was, it was very sad to walk away much sooner than I wanted to. And it was also sad to not have anything else like that for myself at that point, but it was what I had to do in that moment in my life. But what I was the most scared about at that point in this transition over to become an instructional designer was how do I remain relevant in my field? And I think that's a question that a lot of people ask themselves as they are transitioning over, because it's not always easy to get your foot in the door right away to one of these other jobs, such as an instructional designer. So that's something that I really tasked myself with to stay as relevant as possible, whether that meant using my skills with a nonprofit organization, or just keeping up to date with professional development. Because as we all know, in the education industry, things change very rapidly, as does technology that we're integrating and using. And so once you have stepped away, if you stay away too long, then when you go on these interviews, you may feel like you've been away too long, and you've missed a lot. But if you keep your foot in some of these areas in terms of professional development, linking up with people on LinkedIn, and networking with those in the field and industry, and just kind of see like how the industry is changing and evolving and what the requirements are, I think that will really help people to to understand, sometimes the transition takes longer than we expect it to. But there's ways to keep your heads still in the game and your skills still up to par.

Ali  12:18  
Well, and you glossed over one of the things that you did to stay relevant that I want to take a deeper dive into and that is your work with nonprofits. I know I met you because I was writing a piece about military spouses who volunteer in their communities. And so I'm aware that you volunteered for years with the USO, and starting in 2021, with the Bautista Project. So I'm wondering how have those experiences positively contributed to your professional life? And, you know, what skills were you able to bring from those experiences into roles that you did professionally?

Wendi  12:53  
First, just saying how great the USO is. I love them so much. And, and I spent a great deal of time at the USO of North Carolina and I worked in their storytimes. I've volunteered and all of the storytimes. I loved it. I loved seeing the mothers connect with one another and just not be so isolated in motherhood. And also the literacy part as an educator, of course, behind story times. You know, seeing how that impacted children and everything. I have this, maybe off topic here, but I have this very great dream of publishing a children's book one day. So being in those storytimes really helped manifest this dream that I've had for a very long time. And then also, the Bautista Project is working on some of their education pieces for the homeless population and trying to educate those about kind of the hierarchy of needs by Maslow that we're all familiar with, that people can't learn when they're hungry, and people can't learn when they're stressed. And just talking about those things. And at what point would an education piece be relevant for the homeless population, to help them up some skills for the workforce and things like that. But again, we can't teach when someone is hungry. We cannot teach when somebody is stressed, wondering where they're going to lay their head down at night and things like that. So really educating that community. Yes, education is important. But we've got to slide it in there at the right moment for certain populations, because we need to make sure that their basic needs are met so that they can wrap their head around learning concepts. 

Ali  14:31  
That's amazing. I love hearing about your experience, volunteering, and both of those organizations are wonderful. I hope that our listeners will check them out if you're not familiar with them. So the other piece about your story is that you did transition into instructional design and you know, you mentioned going to school for your masters. How did you leverage that new degree to be able to go into your role? I know teachers sometimes do that they want to get a different degree. Maybe they want work outside of the classroom. So they're figuring out what's the right path. I'd love to hear the value that you got out of the master's degree.

Wendi  15:07  
I think just the connections with your cohort members. Everybody kind of has a desire to work in the industry in different fields. Some of us were already working in public education, community college, some are working in public school system and things like that. So that's, that's really powerful is your cohort members, and just keeping in touch with everyone, as everybody starts going in, in different ways. Because sometimes it does help to have a connection in the door somewhere, and somebody who knows your work ethic, because you've worked on projects with this person throughout graduate school. So that's really powerful. But also, just the skills. The skills and that my program gave to me, and also the ways in which it kind of changed the way my my brain thinks about things was, was really amazing to see that shift happen. And, you know, gave me some creative ideas. That's when I started my blog, was in graduate school out of a project about creating a website that has resources for specific population. And so as a military spouse, I wanted to put resources out there for military spouses in one place. And the website I created was not that beautiful, because website design is not not one of my strengths. But um, but that is where my blog was born, the idea was born in that graduate school project. So I think education is really powerful in that way. I believe that LinkedIn is really powerful if you start connecting with people in the industry that in which you want to transition into. There are a couple leaders, I'm sure others on your podcast have mentioned and throughout names out there, but someone who really speaks to transitioning teachers is Dr. Luke Hobson, from MIT. He's amazing, has a podcast, has written books, blog. He even has courses and professional development now and institutes and things like that. But he really helps teachers see their worth, from your time in the classroom and how that translates into instructional design so beautifully. 

JoDee  15:14  
I love hearing that, especially because you are applying all of those really core teacher skills to this profession. You know, when you think about traditional teaching, you're in front of a live audience every day. But in instructional design, you use those same skills to be able to reach learning goals. And you said that one of your best teacher brain skills was those smart goals, setting those smart goals. And that really falls into so many professions because every job is goal driven. There are always objectives to be met. And when I transitioned, I remember thinking like, what am I going to do behind a screen all day long, like my whole work day. Because when I was a teacher, I was in front of a live audience that I was like doing stuff on my computer to prepare for the day. And then it went full on me in front of a computer. And I really struggled with understanding how that was going to fill my day. And after I got into the work that I do, I realized, Oh my gosh, I'm doing all of these teachers skills right here, on this device. I'm using so many different programs. I'm collaborating with people digitally. And I didn't connect the dots at the time that oh, yeah, I can still make an impact in education and affect teachers and student lives, even if I'm not right in front of them.

Wendi  17:33  
I believe so. And that's a question that I have asked myself a few times as a newbie instructional designer my first couple of years and was: Am I still gonna make the same impact that I made in the classroom of students? Now I definitely miss, I miss the interaction with students. But I feel like as instructional designers, we're kind of the silent hero behind the scenes, because all of our classroom experience comes into play when we're working with subject matter experts. And we're really advocating for that learning experience and for those learners. All the students that I've taught over the years, I see their faces flash in front of me when I'm saying but what if you know you try this? Or what if you have this type of learner? You know, so we got to do a lot of advocacy behind the scenes. So I call us very silent heroes or the fairy behind the scenes that makes all the magic happen. Because we do a lot of work behind the scenes and although we don't get to be forward facing with students very much as instructional designers, there's still a really big impact being made from all of our classroom experience that we get to bring in to the fold when we're working with subject matter experts.

JoDee  20:02  
I can tell you right now, when I was a teacher, there were many other people influencing my instruction. And my ability to teach that maybe my students didn't know those faces, or those names. But I was heavily influenced by the way that they built me up as a teacher, not just pedagogically, but instructionally, the software that I used. Anything that I was doing, I was a reflection of somebody else building me up. And I can't highlight all of those or shout out all of those people. But everyone should know that every teacher, every instructional designer, has people behind them that are helping them build their skills, and lift up who they are as a professional. 

Wendi  20:44  
Absolutely. 

Ali  20:45  
Yeah. And I think it's really important to to highlight the value that you bring into that field of instructional design. With being an educator of so many different groups of learners, young learners, learners who were about to teach young learners, and middle grade learners and high school learners. And then your background with special education. I mean, you really have a deep understanding of the different types of learners that there are out there. And one of the things I actually loved about the way you described your job now it's behind the scenes, and you're not forward facing is that teachers as people, we're different types of learners, different types of people with different types of personality. And a lot of us maybe don't want to be forward facing all the time. We did it for a few years. We can put on the face. And we can, you know, we can smile all day. But it is exhausting to do that all day for 30 years. So you may decide that you want to go into a role where you can use all of your teacher brain skills, and you can help support teachers like you both explained so well, by doing something like instructional design and influencing education and teachers. And I love how really your story just encompasses being this Jill of all trades, having done so many different types of teaching and learning. And now you're putting that to use. You upskilled you went back and you got your master's degree. And I think a lot of us are nervous sometimes to go back to school. So I love hearing that success story. That you did leverage all those resources, the cohort, LinkedIn and now you're going into what year four or five of being an instructional designer?

Unknown Speaker  22:24  
Yes, it's such a good fit. And higher ed again, is my favorite area to be in because of just my rapid experience with adult learners in so many different areas. I just feel like it's home for me. Well, I'm

Ali  22:38  
Well, I'm really glad that you found that home and I'm so glad that you were able to share that experience with our listeners. Thank you so much, Wendi for joining the show today.

Wendi  22:47  
Thank you for having me. Great to be here.

Ali  22:49  
If you want to connect with Wendi, you can find her on Instagram at Strength for Spouses and on LinkedIn. We'll link both of these in the show notes.

Are you interested in suggesting a topic for Teacher Shift? Being a guest or recommending a guest? Please see the episodes page on our website to make a submission. And if you'd like to write for us, see our blog page. If you liked Teacher Shift, give us a five star rating and follow us on Instagram, Facebook, Apple podcasts, Spotify and Amazon music. Today's episode was written and recorded by me, Ali Simon and my co host, JoDee Scissors. Executive produced by Teacher Shift. Produced and edited by Emily Porter. Original Music: Emoji by Tubebackr.