Teacher Shift

Steps to Consider Before Taking a Life Leap

May 17, 2023 Karen Tanenbaum Episode 59
Teacher Shift
Steps to Consider Before Taking a Life Leap
Show Notes Transcript

This week Ali and JoDee sit down with Karen Tanenbaum. Karen is a former lawyer who now hosts the Life Leaps Podcast. Together, they will discuss what a life leap is, steps to consider when making any type of transition, and the importance of honing in on your why.


Connect with Karen:
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/lifeleapspodcast/

https://www.instagram.com/karentanenbaum/

Facebook: Life Leaps Podcast

Connect with Ali and JoDee:
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/teachershift
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/teachershift
Teacher Shift LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/teacher-shift
Ali’s LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/alisimon/
JoDee’s LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jodeescissors/

Website
https://www.teachershiftpodcast.com/

Episode Transcriptions
https://www.teachershiftpodcast.com/blog

Ali  0:05  
Teachers are natural innovators, entertainers and problem solvers. They dream of growing old into the profession, teaching their kids kids. But sometimes career goals shift or change, and that makes opportunities outside of the classroom seem intangible questioning who am I, if I'm not a teacher? I'm your host, Alexandra Simon.

JoDee  0:31  
And I'm your co host, JoDee Scissors.

Ali  0:34  
This is The Great Teacher Resignation.

Today, our guest is Karen Tanenbaum. Karen is the host of Life Leaps Podcast, a brand new podcast that features the inspiring stories of ordinary people who make extraordinary life changes. She also recently made her own life leap. After a decade of practicing law in Washington DC, Karen, her husband and 18 month old have relocated to Southern Europe. And in doing so for the first time in her professional life, she has left the law behind. Welcome to the show today, Karen.

Karen  1:14  
Thank you, I'm so excited to be with you guys.

Ali  1:18  
We are equally as excited to have you. 

JoDee  1:20  
I wanted to give our listeners a little bit of background about why you're on the show today, because they're accustomed to hearing from teachers and former teachers and people that hire teachers. But Karen and I met through a mutual friend. And we met up at a coffee shop. And we ended up having a lot in common when it came to career change or thinking about career change, or as you put it a life leap. And we also connected on the topic of podcasts, how to actually do one. But I think that what I really took away from our conversation that day was how much you connected with the experience of a teacher that has dedicated their life and their schooling, to a profession that you possibly might think about walking away from. Is that how you felt when you walked away from the law?

Karen  2:16  
Yes. It's funny because I knew that such a big thread in you all's podcast is your identity as a teacher. And JoDee when I interviewed you for episode five of my podcast, you know, we called it "Who am I if I'm not a teacher?" which of course is your tagline. But I think the same is true of lawyers as well and many professions. But I can certainly speak to lawyers. And obviously I'll speak to some other groups in a minute from what I've learned through my podcast. But as a lawyer, like, you go to school for so many years, and your identity gets really wrapped up in it. Because I think the more time and energy you have to invest into something, the more you have to justify that by like making it a part of yourself and just timewise it becomes a greater part of yourself. And so a lot of the ways that I was feeling about anticipating leaving the law, were things you'd already gone through, and that all your listeners every day are going through. And so I actually, you know, I told you walking into there, I was like, when we met that day, I said, I've been listening to your podcast, and I'm a lawyer. But I've gotten tons of value from it. And so I think that's really saying something about the work you guys are doing.

Ali  3:25  
Thank you so much for sharing that. I think it really is nice to hear that the podcast spans even outside of education and people who are looking to make other changes. It sounds like you've learned a decent amount about teachers from our podcast. So I want to talk a little bit about what is a life leap? And how does that relate to both what you're experiencing in your podcast and also what some of the teachers we've interviewed have gone through?

Karen  3:51  
Yeah, so life leap, the ultimate question. To me a life leap is anything involving change, risk, and the unknown. You know, we tend to focus in my podcasts on the bigger ones of those like career geography, travel or lifestyle. But the reality is, it's anything big or small, that challenges you to make a change and try something different. And I know for you all again, like your listeners, that's often career on the outside, on the surface. But when you really unpack that, it's your identity. It's how you spend your time. It's the structure of your days. It's, it's who you are.

JoDee  4:33  
The part about the unknown. I'm just want to say that's probably something that I really deeply struggled with. Because I'm a planner, because I was a teacher and no matter how many schools I went to, I knew there would be curriculum. I knew I'd have a team. I knew I'd have a group of students. I knew what the school setting was going to look like. And so when I started to think outside of the classroom, that unknown part really got the best of me. I was struggling with even conceptualizing what that might look like. But how did that look like for you with the unknown when you decided? Has that really gotten the best of you, or perhaps Ali, when it came to career decision or making a leap?

Karen  5:19  
For me, so thinking about the unknown is the scariest part. And you know, one of the things that we're thinking about life leaps, both in my own life and talking to you and certainly in like, different people that I've interviewed so far, is our roadblocks to change, kind of go into two categories. And one is the very real stuff, which is like dollars, cents, the logistics. You can't like think that away. And I know you guys talk about that, maybe we'll hit on that today. That's one bucket. But the other parts like kind of the in your head bucket, the self limiting thoughts, the doubt, the fears, that concerns and I feel like so much of that comes down to the unknown. And so for me, one of the things that's been really, really helpful is to ask myself two questions: Is number one, like, what is the worst case scenario that could happen? How likely is that to happen? And if it did happen, like, could I live with that? Anyways? What would I do? What would rock bottom look like? And could I deal with going there? Or falling there? And the second question has been, like, once I've thought through that, like, do I prefer the version of my life, where I try, even if I fail, even if all the bad things I just listed to happen? Or do I prefer the version of my life where I don't try? Because you can't really quantify the unknown, but you can try and you could talk your way through it. And it makes it feel a little bit less unknown, or at least you feel like you can stomach it.

Ali  6:54  
You broke that down so nicely. Like I my teach your brain here is taking notes on this, because I just, I love what you've said. And as you were talking about the unknown, and kind of what that means to you. I feel like during COVID, that's when my thoughts of the unknown or like being risk averse, really changed. And I'll kind of elaborate here. So people who were in really secure jobs and professions, you know, and who'd stayed there for a while. A lot of those people lost their job during the pandemic, or they were concerned, they were going to lose their job. Or like everything changed in their life, because maybe two people had jobs that were really inflexible, and they'd never challenged the unknown. And all of a sudden, they had like small people home that they had to care for. And so one of them couldn't do their job. And I really feel like that was such an unknown. Like, we had no idea what was going to happen in the middle of a pandemic. That it really challenged my, my fear and my understanding and appreciation with like, what's security? And like, what do I appreciate? And is it worth taking a risk? And like, what is the unknown? And I know, it's not perfectly connected to what you said, but it made me really think that, for me, a lot of my life is really unknown because my husband's in the military. And so we never know where we're going to live. We don't know how long we're going to be somewhere. We get to a new city, and like, we love it. We make friends. And then we have to move again. And during that period of the pandemic, I was faced with a lot of unknown things. What was going to happen? You know, what wasn't going to happen? I was doing my career change npartially, during the pandemic. I started my first job outside of teaching in January of 2020. Started my second job outside of teaching in June 2020. And I think that you're right, I mean, you have to think about what version are you going to be happy with. If you don't try something new, if you don't really put yourself out there, you don't really know what's possible, and really what's not possible. And I think we're all pretty quick to realize when things aren't working. Like you can try something new and pretty quickly say, All right, this was, this was not the right decision, right? But if we don't try those things, we won't really know.

JoDee  9:10  
That try thing is something that I live with every day on projects that I'm doing or goals that I have. That if I don't try, I'm not sure I could fully just settle with that feeling. I come from a family of entrepreneurs. And my dad is always like, just try. Just try it. And you to Karen, and like you're trying to merge into that like publishing field, children's literature publishing field like I am. And sometimes this leap that I took to become a published author, and the feedback I get from editors, and sometimes I'm like, Am I meant for this? I'm overwhelmed with feelings after the feedback. And then I take a step back back and look at what was given to me. And I'm like, Alright, I feel empowered. And then I'm back to I'm going to try this. I'm gonna try this again. And I'm gonna try this again. Because I just don't think I could live with not trying.

Karen  10:12  
And you know what? Both of y'all have said things that have made me think of related add on points. Yes and yes, first of all. JoDee, when you just mentioned like, I have to try. I think that the other biggest anecdote that I've seen to fear and doubt, again, both in myself, and in these interviews that I've done, in addition to like asking yourself that question, like, do I prefer the version where I try versus where I don't? Is number two, like putting on your curiosity hat. Because I think that when you try to view things with the lens of like curiosity. Whether it's, Oh, if I like, try this experience, maybe I'm potentially interested in trying this career field. What if I just do a little volunteer work? What if I just talked to a few people, and like, with curiosity, see what that feels like, see what that looks like? Or if I try something, and I fall on my butt being like, again, with curiosity, easier said than done, but so important, of being like, Hmm, so what happened there? Like, what was a feeling? What was I thinking? What was...you know, and I think that it just makes things feel so much lighter. Because I think when we're trying to think of these big changes, and we're thinking of it in this massive global sense of like, the unknown, and what if where I go is different than where I am now. It's so much worse. And, you know, it becomes this really heavy, weighty thing, everything we do. And we psych ourselves out. And so I think that staying curious, and just really making observations, whether you're like writing them down as you go, or noting them to a friend. Again, I think accountability partners, and all the things are important, maybe we'll hit on that in a minute. But like finding some way to just like, casually, as casually as possible, we get it, it's a big deal. But with curiosity, reflect on these things. I think helps lift the weight of it and give you more room to experiment, because that's how you have to think of it. Otherwise, everything just becomes so big and so hard. And you don't even know which way to step.

JoDee  12:09  
You've had a chance to talk to a lot of curious people on your podcast. And what are some of the common themes that you see with them that could perhaps help a teacher who is at this crossroad and isn't sure which way to go? Or, or to even move at all? What have you learned from your guests?

Karen  12:30  
One thing that I've seen in listening to y'alls podcast is obviously you're speaking to a really unique set of the population that has this gargantuan job. And this extreme, you know, as you say, like teachers are CEOs of their classrooms, and this really unique, amazing skill set. So you all have a really specific place. But as I've also said, I think you speak to so much of a larger audience more than you realize. And so what I've seen, just to sort of give a primer here also is the kinds of changes that your listeners are looking to make, and the kinds of things that are probably going through their head. From what I've seen and felt and listening to yours and mine is, there's really a common thread when it comes to life changes period. And it's that we're basically all always trying to be better versions of ourselves. And we're all always trying to get that much closer to the lives we want to live. Whatever that looks like. Whoever that looks like. That's what we're all trying to do. And so in the end, again, to make these changes is hard and scary. That's why we haven't made them yet. That's why we're all still struggling with them. They often involve leaps, whether it's a leap of faith, circumstance, career, perspective, you know, whatever it is. And so, from that, these are the big takeaways that I've gotten so far. So the first one is, you're not alone, but you got to find your people. So you might feel like you're alone, and most people do in the beginning. And that's why your first step has got to be, in most cases, to find your people. JoDee, you said in your episode in my podcast, that those people might be outside of the classroom. And in your case, they were. And another recent episode of mine, to that point, this amazing person I interviewed, Coach G, said it best too. He was like, Look, just because someone in your life can't see your vision for what you want, or who you want to be, or what you want to do, doesn't mean they don't love you. It just means the vision is not for them. So you have to find your people who can sort of help nurture your little seed of an idea. Who can help nurture your curiosity. And you guys, that might be a Google search, where you find a Facebook forum of hundreds of people who are doing things that might interest you or want to get out of doing what you're doing. That might be a podcast, that might be a single person that you can trust that you can talk to, but you have got to find, first and foremost, a space where you feel safe to talk about and have curiosity about and explore whatever it is you want to do. Number two, you need accountability. So that's deadlines people. Doesn't have to be like, I'll quit my job at 3pm, January 3, 2024. Maybe it is, if so that's great. But I just mean, whether that's like writing things down. Telling your friend or a loved one. Telling the world. Telling a career coach, therapist, all of the above. Those thoughts, ideas, goals, fears, whatever it is. It's got to exist somewhere besides your head. Even if you just put a calendar invite on your phone, like, in one week, I'm going to have considered this possibility for my life. In two weeks, I'm going to sit down and journal for five minutes about whatever it is that I want to be doing in a year. I'm going to vision board. I'm going to make a date with a friend. And I'm going to ask that friend to bug me about this thing that I mentioned in one month, in one week, in 10 minutes, whatever it is. Like you need to create whatever structure of accountability works for you. Number three, so the third one is, and we kind of hit on this a little bit before, is you need to parse out which of your roadblocks are real, which are perceived, and tackle them accordingly. So roadblocks typically, as I said, come into two buckets. The first is the self limiting stuff, which is very real. But it generally takes the form of like, Oh, my God, can I do this? This is hard. This is scary. What if the place I land is worse than the place that I am now? What if I fail? Again, these things are very real. I'll come back to them in a second. But the second is, again, the dollars and cents stuff, the geography, the hard and fast stuff that you can't unfortunately, just sort of think away. And everyone deals with each of these differently, right? Again, it could be writing, talking to professionals, talking to like career coaches, talking to friends or loved ones. But again, you have to figure out which of the things running through your head fall into which category and that'll help you figure out how to tackle them. I think it sometimes when we're thinking about change, again, it becomes this massive swirling things in our minds. Again, both my own experience, but all the people I've talked to at this point, everyone seems to have found a way to like peel back the onion, and figure out what their roadblocks are. What is stopping them. So that they can either get the resources from elsewhere to figure it out. Look deep within to figure it out. Whatever it takes. You can't even begin to tackle it until you have separated it all out. So that brings me to my final point, which is, again, the two biggest anecdotes that I've seen, to the fear and all of the things that typically come up in the conversation about like, again, real and perceived limitations, is the two biggest things I think that helped with that are number one, having curiosity, wearing your curiosity hat. And number two, again, asking yourself the question, what will I regret more? Trying or not? And looking back, which version of my life do I prefer? The one where I tried? Or the one where I don't?

Ali  18:10  
You hit on a lot of really good points and things to consider, steps to take, when you're looking to one make a life leap or just really reevaluate where you are in this moment. I think, you know, finding your people, having the accountability. But there is a theme that I kind of heard throughout this, and it was talking about, what will I regret more, but what's the life that I want to live? That's really what I heard. Like, what's the life that I want? And how do I accomplish that? And for most people, our career is a part of that. And it really needs to be a part of that. Because if you're employed, even if you're not employed, maybe you're at home with your family, your day to day life really determines your happiness and like how you feel. That's why with teachers, it's so hard for us, if we're living this really grueling, like nine month calendar year, that's not really balanced, and we try to binge everything in the summer. It doesn't work because it's not sustainable. And we're not living every day the quality of life that we want to live and honestly, that we need to have in terms of our health and our wellness. So that's one thing I've started to challenge myself on, like, the things that I do on a daily basis, whether it's professional, like work related, or whether it's other things in my life. So maybe it is volunteering commitments, because I want to check out if I like some other you know, field or industry or to see if that, if that might be able to fill my bucket. That's something that challenged me a lot when I left teaching. I missed like that reward feeling that, like I'm doing good in the world. So I started to volunteer like a lot and it was too much. And I had to scale back. But I really think honing in on all the things you discussed. But how does that happen everyday? Like what is your everyday life look like? Because if we're just looking at the big picture like, How much money am I going to make? And where am I going to live? And what am I going to do? You really just have to think about practical terms like, what is that for you? And what do you want it to be?

JoDee  20:12  
I also want to touch on this, sometimes, these leaps are not a choice. Sometimes people are forced into a leap, or a change, such as divorce. Maybe they were bullied in their profession by an administrator or a teacher or a parent or a student. Sometimes there's trauma that occurs in a family and you have to make these choices. But I think that the points that you gave, can also support someone that is forced into change. And not just by choice, because we know that sometimes it's just not always choice. And sometimes, unfortunately, we have life events that happen to us, that make us make decisions that we weren't really anticipating.

Karen  21:00  
Yeah. And I think that's... I think it's a great point. And that's a question that I have really thought through when thinking about my podcast and the topic. Because even being able to call it and make a life leap. There's privilege inherent in that, right? Like, there's agency in leaping. Often when you think of leaping, it's like I am jumping. I am making the decision. Again, there's, there's agency and that. And yet so often, a lot of what we face is circumstances that are beyond our control. And I think back when you said that actually to like a third episode I did with Travis Moore, an interviewee who he worked on Capitol Hill, in Washington DC, thought he had one job, and then completely lost that job last minute, and was on unemployment and thinking like, oh, boy, what do I do now. And sort of the, the change in perspective, the pivot, the leap, whatever you want to call it from there, that ultimately made him like now he's the person that educates Congress on tech, or he sends fellows to educate Congress on technology. Seeing how someone goes from a set of circumstances that are beyond their control, to something totally different. At some point, you're going to have agency, even if it's like so much less of a sliver than you want it. And even if it's so important for us to acknowledge that there are so many things out of our control, like what you just said, at a certain point, you still get to and have to in your life, like make whatever set of decisions you have to. And my hope is that the guidance that your podcast offers, and that, you know, we've seen so far in mine, and these points can help somebody in that. And I also actually wanted to jump into 1 point one of you mentioned about visualizing like your day to day. That actually wasn't even on my bulleted list. But as you're saying it, it's resonated so true with the people I've talked to, and in my own belief in life now is remembering your why. And I think that when we think about fear, and uncertainty, and doubt, and making changes. It's so important to start with sitting down for a minute and visualizing what do I want my life to look like? And that may not be I know exactly what career I want. That may not be I know exactly where I want to live. But it's like, how do I want to feel at the end of the day? How do I want to feel about my career? How do I want to feel about where I'm living? If I just envision my, like a single day in my life and my ideal life, what does that look like? What does that feel like? How do I balance my time between personal family, all the rest? And I think if you like, envision what that looks and feels like and hold so tight to that, then I think that can help you overcome and get through a lot of the fear and the doubt, just as good as any curiosity hat.

JoDee  23:46  
One thing that Ali and I really encourage people to do is when it comes to that vision, this is why networking and talking to people outside of the classroom is so important. Because when you are in a school building, everyone's vision is about the next semester, or the next year, the next standardized test that's coming up. That's kind of where the scope is. And no one's really thinking outside of those plans. And so when we provide strategies for teachers who are seeking a leap, networking is huge. Talking to others. To build a different perspective than those who are not... can't understand your vision or perhaps are on that same path as you. But you have to stay true to your vision and sometimes it just means you need a little bit of extra outside help.

Karen  24:38  
And honestly, like last week, I had an episode with a retired teacher. Actually, she's not retired, that was the whole point. She quit and then decided she wasn't done. But Miss Libby, she didn't even have a passport at the time and ended up moving to Thailand to teach okay for several years. And for her what it took was a flyer in the mail. She literally got a flyer in the mail from International Teachers, or like some association like that, signed up for it. Again, found this community of people who were doing all these things that she didn't even really, maybe should do existed, but she certainly didn't think it was something she'd ever do or could do. And suddenly, it became possible. And of course, fast forward, she did it. But I think, again, to your point in terms of like, finding a community, looking outside of your specific world and set of circumstances. Because if the answer was obvious within your specific role and set of circumstances, you might have already done it. You know, it's kind of a shift in perspective, it's a leap in perspective, if you will, sometimes.

Ali  25:44  
That's such a good way I think, to close us up, is really just honing in on our why, what you really want. I think we've also heard throughout several of our episodes, that your values can drive these decisions. And sometimes the people that we talk to, they might not know, what values we really hold dear and what's really most important to us. What our why is. So your advice is really spot on to, you know, to find your people, to find someone who understands you, whether you are going to share those values with them, and open up and really talk about your why, internally, externally. It's important to really just have support when you're going through any sort of life leap or a transition. And I've just loved hearing about your experience taking the life leap, but really your interviews with the guests on your podcast. So I want to be able to share with our listeners how they can learn more about the life leaps podcast and how they can reach out to Karen. You can connect with her on Instagram, at Life Leaps Podcast and Karen Tannenbaum. And on Facebook, you can find the Life Leaps Podcast. Thank you again for joining us today, Karen.

Karen  26:56  
Thank you all so much. This has been wonderful.

Ali  27:06  
If you liked The Great Teacher Resignation, give us a five star rating and follow us on Instagram, Facebook, Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Google Podcasts, Amazon Music and Audible. Today's episode was written and recorded by me Alexandra Simon, and my co host JoDee Scissors. Executive produced by Teacher Brain. Produced and edited by Emily Porter. Original Music: Emoji by Tubebackr. Special thanks to our sponsor Paper Planes Ed.