Today, Ali and JoDee sit down with Kacie Smith, a former educator of 20 years who now advocates for teachers in the classroom. She is also a training lead with Traveling Coaches. Together, they’ll discuss what feeling unsafe as teacher looks like in the classroom, what a career transition looked like for Kacie, and the lack of respect teachers are shown in the classroom, especially when it comes to safety.
Connect with Kacie:
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/kaciejsmith/
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kacie-smith-280347230/
Connect with Ali and JoDee:
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/teachershift
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/teachershift
Teacher Shift LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/teacher-shift
Ali’s LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/alisimon/
JoDee’s LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jodeescissors/
Website
https://www.teachershiftpodcast.com/
Episode Transcriptions
https://www.teachershiftpodcast.com/blog
Today, Ali and JoDee sit down with Kacie Smith, a former educator of 20 years who now advocates for teachers in the classroom. She is also a training lead with Traveling Coaches. Together, they’ll discuss what feeling unsafe as teacher looks like in the classroom, what a career transition looked like for Kacie, and the lack of respect teachers are shown in the classroom, especially when it comes to safety.
Connect with Kacie:
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/kaciejsmith/
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kacie-smith-280347230/
Connect with Ali and JoDee:
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/teachershift
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/teachershift
Teacher Shift LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/teacher-shift
Ali’s LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/alisimon/
JoDee’s LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jodeescissors/
Website
https://www.teachershiftpodcast.com/
Episode Transcriptions
https://www.teachershiftpodcast.com/blog
Ali 0:05
Teachers are natural innovators, entertainers and problem solvers. They dream of growing old into the profession, teaching their kids kids. But sometimes career goals shift or change, and that makes opportunities outside of the classroom seem intangible questioning who am I, if I'm not a teacher? I'm your host, Alexandra Simon.
JoDee 0:31
And I'm your co host, JoDee Scissors.
Ali 0:34
This is The Great Teacher Resignation.
Today, our guest is Kacie Smith. Kacie is a former educator of 20 years. She is passionate about advocating for teachers in the classroom. Kacie is now a training lead with Traveling Coaches. Welcome to the show today, Kacie.
Kacie 0:59
Thank you for having me. I'm really excited to be here.
Ali 1:02
We are really happy to have you on the show today. And we really want to kick off today's episode by asking you to tell us more about what unsafe looks like to you in the classroom?
Kacie 1:15
So for me, my personal experience after that was, as a teacher, you really have to kind of be able to feel and understand kids and really get to know them. And you can kind of fill in something maybe off. And I think it's important to listen to that as a teacher and your teacher gut. When you feel just kind of uncomfortable with things that may be happening, and then being able to go from that point and then reaching out to the counselor, or to the assistant principal, or to whatever to see if maybe there is something going on that you're not privy to. Unfortunately, sometimes it's more drastic and obvious. The way that it was in my case. And you have kids kind of lashing out on social media or to other people. And I think that anytime that there's a situation where an educator feels uncomfortable in their own classroom, in their own environment, that that's really kind of the trigger for safety.
JoDee 2:08
I've definitely seen and witnessed unsafe situations in schools around teachers. You're raising a point that I haven't ever thought about because I was mostly a primary teacher, which is the social media aspect of it. Now I know that my, my friend who is a professor, we have discussed in depth, kind of the role of social media now and how it can pose a threat or an uncomfortable situation for a teacher. But in my experience, at the primary level, I've seen unsafety in terms of hitting, throwing objects, chairs, lashing out verbally, some pretty intense threats. Those are things that I definitely saw throughout 13 years, no matter what state I was in, no matter what school I was in, there was always something that I saw that put teachers in a very difficult position.
Kacie 3:02
Absolutely. I mean when I was... my first three years in middle school, and those threats look a little bit different. You know, there was a time that I was actually like thrown into a locker, like my second year of teaching by a student that had behavior issues. And you know, it's kind of under that umbrella. And then over the years, I've noticed that the frustration is eeking out of these kids on social media, more so than being face to face. Because it's easier to hide behind that.
JoDee 3:30
What are some of the things that your school did when those social media threats or incidents would occur?
Kacie 3:38
Unfortunately, not a whole lot, which is kind of why it was the proverbial like, last straw that broke the camel's back, right? When I went to my principal and initially said, you know, I don't feel safe. The response from her was, well, no place is safe. And don't worry, we have eyes on the kid, which was, you know, all fine and wonderful, except that that kid was still coming into my room every other day. It wasn't, you know, student wasn't up in the front office. After the social media posts, I called her and then I called our Student Resource Officer. And I said, you know, I'm taking my son, because my son was at the high school with me, I'm taking my son and we're leaving. We don't feel safe, until this is investigated. We know who did this. And then I'm aware of what those consequences will be. And at the end of that school day, I was called and told that they found out who the student was. That the student and the student was very apologetic that I was safe to come back. And so when I asked, well, is the student going to be removed from my classroom? Then I was told no. And then when I spend more time with the student was? I was told no. And so for me, that was my breaking because it was... I was walking into a situation where I felt unsafe in my classroom. Because I didn't know, out of the 140 kids that I had, who was it that was making these arts against me.
Ali 5:06
I can't even imagine what that would feel like as a former high school teacher. When someone does something like that, and you know who it is, it's frightening, right? But to not know who that student was. And I think this really comes back for me to each school, school district, state, it's very different how they approach these matters. I have a family member who actually works on the team at her school to investigate credible threats. And she's taken me through their process. And it's very well thought out, outline. There's a thorough process. And so I think what's challenging in your story is that there was not a good process in place to make you feel safe. And if you don't feel safe, well, one, that's just a huge issue. But how can you be an effective teacher? Which is what education is all about. So I'm wondering if you could give some feedback advice to people who are trying to support teachers, what would that really look like? How would supporting teachers to make them feel safe... what would that look like for you?
Kacie 6:15
There's a level I think, right now in society where there's a fear in education, just in general, right? The fear is the wrong thing, or do the wrong thing, or read the wrong thing, or whatever else. And I think that when you look at the situation, and you're not protecting your teachers, whatever that looks like. For me, personally, the way that I think it should have been handled, and the way that it handled for me in prior districts was that there was the full investigation. There was a meeting with all parties involved. There was an agreement upon this is what we are going to do and these are the repercussions. Instead of it being taken care of away from the teacher. And they think that that's where the biggest issue was, is that the power was taken away from me. There was no, Oh, we got it. You know, don't worry. We've got it handled. That wasn't successful for me. You know, to find out later on down the road, through other mediums, oh, this is what happened to the student. And you know, I don't wish the student ill will or anything of that nature. But to your point, when you said, when you're in a classroom, if you don't feel safe, you don't have an effective teacher. Like I lost the spark, and I love... like, there's nothing else I ever wanted to do with my life, except to be educator. And to walk into that classroom and for the very first time have school not be my safe place, was really just heartbreaking for me. I think that a lot of it could have been remedied by really taking teachers seriously. And if we say something, it's not because we just want attention or because we genuinely feel the way that we do. And so instead of being worried about you know what the repercussions may be from the community, or from the parents, or from the kids, like, really take a look at what those teachers are saying because we know what we feel.
JoDee 8:02
But something that you said earlier, when your admin said no places safe. That's already instilling a mindset that no matter how this is resolved, or how its approached, that you are going to not be in a safe environment. And I think like if that's the state that we're living in, where we have to have this kind of fight mentality. That we are in an unsafe situation, no matter what. What does that say to teachers, or upcoming teachers or teachers that we want to retain? What is that saying about the climate we are setting up for them?
Kacie 8:38
You know, I think to that point, it's really interesting that you say that, because I think that, you know, we have school safety drills, and we have lockdown drills, and we have all of those kinds of things. And those have become standard in education, right? So to have your kids go to the side of the wall and stay quiet, and turn off the lights and do all those things. That's become just absolutely normalized. And there was... I had a exchange student from Germany. And the very first time that we had a lockdown drill, she was visibly shaken. Because things like that don't happen there, right? And so I think that when you go into the school environment, and to your point of that level of not feeling safe, kind of already, there's constant reminders of that, you know, make sure that you keep your doors locked, make sure that you don't, you know, prop open any other doors. And it's all of these things that are around educators that make the cost benefit analysis of is it worth my mental health? Is it worth my mental health to walk in every day, and be concerned? And it's not being... you know, I think that some people feel like it's being hyperbolic to say that. But you when you talk to people that aren't educators, and you really go through, you know, hey, we have these lockdown drills, and we have sightlines in our classroom and we have to do these things. That's not normal. And it's become normalized. But for people that aren't in education, when you're talking about those things, they're completely literally blown away with it. And I think that that statement of it's not safe anywhere, was meant to attempt to try to lower the level of frustration and fear that I was experiencing. And if anything, all it did was validate my feelings of this is not the place for me anymore.
Ali 10:17
I mean, it breaks my heart to hear the way this played out for you. Because I can hear the passion in your voice and how you came to education. And that was what you always wanted to do. But I'm also really glad that you made the choice that was best for you. And I want to transition to really talking a little bit more about why in situations like yours, it might be important to hold students accountable for their actions and how maybe we could have prevented a 20 year veteran from leaving the classroom because they didn't feel supported. And they didn't feel like a student's actions where, you know, the student wasn't held accountable for their actions.
Kacie 10:55
You know, when I, when I went to file, because I tried to file harassment charges, because I was like, there has to be some kind of repercussion. There has to be some kind of logical consequence. And the the struggle that, that I faced was, in Texas, there is a statute and it protect, as I want to say it's David's Law, David's Bill that protects student to student harassment, and student to school harassment. But it does not for students, the teacher. There's nothing in the law books that covers student to teacher. And there's a lot of, you know, attorneys that aren't really willing to take that on, because there's no precedent for it. So when, when I tried to, you know, go in and try to make myself feel a little bit safer, or to let this kid know, you know, that this wasn't okay. I was met with well, there's really nothing we can do. So it seems like me that societally it's important to protect schools. Absolutely. It's important to protect students. Absolutely. But you have to protect your teachers.
JoDee 10:56
I think what we're seeing is under protection of teachers. And as we know, every day when you walk into a classroom, it is the teacher that is what makes the day happen. And they have to be healthy, and they have to be protected to. Otherwise they feel unsafe. They feel insecure. They feel scared. They can't deliver instruction in the way that they so passionately entered into the profession to do.
Kacie 12:27
100%. I tried to go back the next day, right? And my husband told me, he said, You're not going back tomorrow, are you? And I'm like, Yeah, you know, the kids need me, right? And I went in that first day. And I couldn't. I just couldn't do it. And that was the most heartbreaking thing to me is that I was genuinely scared. And I've never, you know, even in those other situations where there was a kid that was acting out, you know with aggression, I've never been scared. And that was genuinely the first time I was scared, and it broke my heart because that's been the only thing I've ever wanted to do. You know, my mom was a teacher. My dad was a teacher. And to have to walk away from that was heartbreaking. But I had to save myself because I couldn't keep doing it.
Ali 13:14
We're dealing with a serious teacher retention issue right now, particularly in Texas, I attended a session recently, where they presented data that 77% of the teachers in Texas have considered leaving the classroom. And safety is one of these reasons. We have to make teachers feel safe, just like we make students feel safe. And I think that there's something that we're missing as a society as a whole, that we really are so focused, teachers are too on the student, right? Because we that's why we went into this profession. Because we love the kids. But we have to take care of the teachers so that they can take care of the kids. And if they're not supported, and they don't feel safe, then the kids aren't going to feel that way either. And another thing that came to mind is like leading by example and modeling good behavior. JoDee talks about this a lot. And so we want to model for our students what life is like and like how we can react in certain situations. And so what example is that that a teacher was threatened in the classroom. And that there wasn't adequate resolution to this problem. That's not modeling like that bullying is going to be treated fairly at this school, Also. And that's, that's a huge problem.
JoDee 14:31
We have adults making decisions for teachers. We have lawmakers making decisions for teachers. And these adults are raising younger generations. And so what are we modeling and teaching younger generations about this profession, and the respect and grace that teachers need to do their job? And so when we have young people putting out threats to teachers, what is the messaging that we are sending them inadvertently or directly, whatever it may be about teachers?
Kacie 15:10
It's a lack of respect. It's lack of respect for the profession, number one, right? And I'm bringing the way back today, and this was 20 years ago where it was like, Well, you may not get paid great, but your benefits are pretty good. And like in Texas, that that's not so much the the way that it is anymore. But it's, and this, and this, and this, you know, after COVID, and then doing this. And I think that that's the other thing is a lot of people don't realize when they talk about growth in students or behavioral and social emotional growth incident, that a pandemic is a trauma. But that's not the teacher's job to help the kid through that trauma. And so we're getting traumatized kids in our classroom, and everything that we're supposed to do in educating them. We're still supposed to do that. But we're also supposed to protect them in case of a school shooting. And we're also supposed to help deal with their trauma from COVID. And this and that. And so back to your original question, when you were saying, what message does it send. It sends the message that we're not important. That we're not valued. And I think that there's so many other things that are going on, that I could talk for hours about, about why teachers aren't feeling valued. But if you're in your school, and you're choosing to take on this profession, and all the wonderful things that can come with it, if you don't feel supported, you can't do anything. And if the kids don't see that their teachers being supported... I've had a lot of kids actually reach out after they kind of heard what happened. And they said, you know, I'm sad that you're gone. I hate that for the students. But you also showed them that actions have consequences. If the district wasn't going to show that actions have consequences. You did. You left because nobody was protecting you. And that speak to the kids more than anything else. And I think that that, to me, at least brought some comfort. As far as you know, even if a teenager is telling you as an adult, like you did the right thing. Like, it helps to hear that. That they genuinely believe that.
JoDee 17:10
Well, because you shouldn't be teaching a young person, a young adult, that receiving and accepting threats is okay. That is how kids spiral when they are bullied. When they get into a bad place. They start cutting themselves, whatever it may be. You're showing and standing up for what it was a healthy step, versus going into an unhealthy step, which is what a lot of teachers do before they can make that choice. They spiral into very unhealthy choices regarding their mind and body. And that's not what we're here to model. We're modeling healthy choices.
Kacie 17:46
It was the hardest healthy choice that I probably had to make. Because it was just, you know, jumping off a cliff of I don't know what's gonna happen now, you know? But I know that I can't keep doing this.
Ali 17:58
Well, I know that must have just been such a difficult decision to make, but it took you to where you are now. And I can see in telling your story, I can really see who you were as an educator. And I'm curious to know, how that transition into your current role, can you tell us a little more about Traveling Coaches and what your life looks like now?
Kacie 18:21
I feel like it was, it was a lot of work. I applied for a lot of jobs. But I think that this is probably the perfect placement for me. So I have the ability to kind of be over a group of trainers, to be able to have trainers. And then I kind of think of them as teachers, right? And so I'm able to invest in them when I kind of wish maybe an administrator had done with me or model the administrators that I had in the past that were pretty great. Where people just want to be seen and be heard and feel important, and have somebody listened to them. You know, and so whatever kind of feeling that they're having, it's my job to motivate them. It's my job to take their concerns and listen to them. And I think that it's kind of come full circle, and that I'm able to kind of take those areas where I didn't feel and invest in people in that manner. You know, I can't imagine not being in education. But in a way I still am. You know, I'm still intending to make a difference in people's lives and making them feel seen and heard and important. And so I work from home now, which is so strange when you've gone 20 years where everything is mandated by a bell, including when you go to the bathroom. It's very strange to kind of go, Wait a second, I don't have to call in and get a sub so I can go to the doctor? Like so that's been a big learning curve, too. Because, you know, your core content so well and then you kind of we do legal training. And so for me, kind of ironic now that I think about it, but for me to be able to kind of learn, it's been really exciting. It's been nice and I don't regret my decision. I feel like I'm in a better space mentally than I have been in a really long time. I have friends who are considering it and they're concerned well, what about the kids? What about the kids? And like, the kids are gonna be fine. They're going to be fine. But there's only one you and you have to take care of you. And if that means that you you leave the classroom, you leave the classroom. And that's okay.
JoDee 20:18
Well, thank you for 20 years of dedication to the classroom. That's a long time. And you making a decision to leave but also focusing on teachers and providing safe places to be seen and heard. That just goes back to what we try to do as teachers for our students. We provide safety for them, because we see them. We hear them. We need a call to action, we do it. And you transitioning into that area, I think is what a lot of professionals, not just teachers, a lot of professionals need.
Kacie 20:57
I agree, I feel very lucky to, to have experienced all that I have in those 20 years of kids. I mean, I took a lot of stuff home, it's all in my home office now. But I still have my happy teacher binders that have all my letters and thank you notes and stuff from kids for 20 years. So I know that it wasn't, it wasn't in vain. And it wasn't for nothing.
JoDee 21:17
I still have every letter and drawing that my students gave me. Card. Picture, like I have all of those things because they are timeless. The messages that they write. Their handwriting. Just everything about it, I often just go back and look at it. Sift through it. Because that was a core part of me growing up as an adult were those relationships with those students. They taught me more than any adult ever taught me. And I save them, and I revisit them just like I do yearbooks.
Kacie 21:53
Oh yeah. So my mom was an English teacher. And she was killed in a car accident when I was seven. And she was on her way to school. And I still have the letters that her students wrote to me about how my mom was as a teacher. So those things like to your point that is timeless. You know, I go back, and I look at these, these letters from these kids that are now in their 30s. You know, and I'm just like, I think being an educator, and this was the hardest part for me, to not be a teacher anymore. And I'm to kind of relate it back to always be a teacher. It may look a little bit different, but always be a teacher.
Ali 22:30
JoDee and I totally connect with you on that. That's why our first episode was, Who am I if I'm not a teacher? And I think we all concluded that once a teacher, always a teacher. You just. you have a heart of a teacher. And that's who you are. And that makes us better. We're better people because we were teachers. And any work we do after being teachers, we're going to be bringing that that teacher brain that teacher heart. And actually you said that teacher gut to our next profession. So thank you so much for sharing your story today, Kacie. We want to let our listeners know that if you'd like to connect with Kacie, you can find her on Instagram at Kacie J. Smith and on LinkedIn. And we'll link it in the show notes.
If you liked The Great Teacher Resignation, give us a five star rating and follow us on Instagram, Facebook, Apple Podcast, Spotify, Google Podcasts, Amazon Music and Audible. Today's episode was written and recorded by me Alexandra Simon, and my co host JoDee Scissors. Executive produced by Teacher Brain. Produced and edited by Emily Porter. Original Music: Emoji by Tubebackr. Special thanks to our sponsor, Paper Planes Ed.