Today, Ali and JoDee sit down with a former educator from the U.K. who has transitioned into working as a reading curriculum designer. Together, they will discuss the resources that were invaluable to her transition, the shared unrealistic expectations and frustrations that teachers face throughout the world, and the real problem the teaching profession is facing.
Resources mentioned in the episode:
LinkedIn
Guardian Jobs
Life After Teaching, Exit the Classroom and Thrive
Connect with Ali and JoDee:
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/teachershift
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/teachershift
Teacher Shift LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/teacher-shift
Ali’s LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/alisimon/
JoDee’s LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jodeescissors/
Website
https://www.teachershiftpodcast.com/
Episode Transcriptions
https://www.teachershiftpodcast.com/blog
Today, Ali and JoDee sit down with a former educator from the U.K. who has transitioned into working as a reading curriculum designer. Together, they will discuss the resources that were invaluable to her transition, the shared unrealistic expectations and frustrations that teachers face throughout the world, and the real problem the teaching profession is facing.
Resources mentioned in the episode:
LinkedIn
Guardian Jobs
Life After Teaching, Exit the Classroom and Thrive
Connect with Ali and JoDee:
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/teachershift
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/teachershift
Teacher Shift LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/teacher-shift
Ali’s LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/alisimon/
JoDee’s LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jodeescissors/
Website
https://www.teachershiftpodcast.com/
Episode Transcriptions
https://www.teachershiftpodcast.com/blog
Ali 0:00
All teachers are natural innovators, entertainers and problem solvers. They dream of growing old into the profession, teaching their kids kids. But sometimes career goals shift or change, and that makes opportunities outside of the classroom seem intangible questioning who am I, if I'm not a teacher? I'm your host, Alexandra Simon.
JoDee 0:31
And I'm your co host, JoDee Scissors.
Ali 0:34
This is The Great Teacher Resignation.
Today, we are joined by a former educator from the UK who will remain anonymous. This educator has taught primary school for six years before transitioning into her current role as a reading curriculum designer. Welcome to the show today.
Anonymous 0:58
Thank you. I'm so excited to be here.
Ali 1:01
We're really glad to have you on the show today. And to get us started, we know that you did recently leave teaching, we're curious what type of support or resources did you access in order to build the courage to make your transition out of the classroom?
Anonymous 1:18
So the thing that pushed me to get out was that I thought I just needed a change. So I changed schools ready for the new school year, which was September. And instead of making me feel better about education, and better about teaching, it actually made it worse. So I just didn't enjoy where I'd gone. I had already been thinking like, maybe I just need a break from teaching. And then I was telling myself, No, I just need to change schools. I've been at my old school for years. You know, I just needed fresh start, just need a change. And I was fed up to the drive, because my old school was so far away, on top of an already really long day. So that was... I changed schools, and it just didn't have the effect that I thought it would. So I started having a look at what else you can do with your teaching qualification. And it's just so vague because you're overqualified for some things. So people aren't going to pay you the wage that you need to survive on. After being on a teacher's salary. Not the teacher salaries are great, but you know, it's more than an entry level salary. So if you want to change career completely. And then other careers, they want you to have more specific qualifications for that. So I was like, I don't know what to do. But also, I really love education. And I love kids. So I just don't know what to do, I just don't want to go through this. This is all I know, is that I don't want to go through this all day, every day for the rest of my life, because I can't. I can't do. So I did loads of research, I joined LinkedIn. I didn't think that it was a thing, but education. But it really is.
Ali 2:45
It didn't really used to be super education heavy, I think, probably like five to seven years ago, but it's definitely picked up in the education field. I mean JoDee and I can attest to that.
JoDee 2:57
I'm so glad to see more educators on there, just representing our profession, and being the voices of the profession.
Anonymous 3:04
So I went on that and it was like I put in like really, really basic details, because I didn't want anyone to find me on there. I was like if my boss gonna be watching? And it came up with suggested jobs and vacancies. And I was like, oh, like learning and development, I could go that way. And then I found some jobs with other like educational companies as like I've had at this company. I've used their things before. I applied for four jobs in the end. Sorry, I'm going off on a tangent, but I will come back to the question. Two of them were actually education. Two of them weren't at all. And the two that weren't at all that I didn't actually want. And I think that probably was reflected in my application. I didn't get shortlisted, for the other two I did. So one of them I found on LinkedIn, the other one I found on a website called Guardian Jobs. So I looked at it and there are a dozen things on LinkedIn that you can follow as well that are about getting out of teaching. I trolled the internet. I went on to forums, everywhere, looking at everything. I found a Facebook group a while back. This is probably during COVID when I was like the teacher anymore. It was horrible. And you might have already heard of it. It's called Life After Teaching, Exit the Classroom and Thrive. And people post on there all the time about quitting teacher and wanting to quit teaching. The problem was with teaching. I think it was predominantly a UK based group. Whereas now there are people starting to come in from other countries as well, which is really cool. And then just like talking to friends, in terms of like support in exiting. It was so bad. I was so miserable. I didn't have a choice. I had to get out. So I live on my own. I had bills I had to house around. And I was at a point where I was like I literally want to quit with no job to go to. Because the notice periods here, you have to have resigned by the half term of that term to leave at the end of the term. So I had to have resigned by the like 27th for something of October to leave for the first of January. And I was in September, I was literally... I had a meltdown on my second day. This is not good. I gave a couple weeks, I was like, I just need to settle in. And I was like, No, I can't keep doing this. I don't even know how I'm gonna get to half term, let alone do a whole term. And then if I don't find a job, like I can't quit. But if you're applying for a normal job, most people only have to give four weeks notice, not like months on end. So I was just really lucky this job came up at the end of September. I was really open with the school that I was working in and told them and went through the interview process, which took ages. And I did, luckily, I was able to have my notice in by the deadline.
JoDee 5:36
I'm sorry that you had to endure all of those really hard feelings for a longer time than you probably would have wanted to. I can completely relate to that. But when you talked about how you found groups on Facebook, and you found your friends, to be able to support you in that really difficult time. I think that's one of the number one things a teacher needs, who is considering a transition, or they just feel that the classroom is not their space, is they need a strong community that is not just within their building. They need other supports. Because sometimes the people within the building are just trying to push forward as you are. And they don't necessarily have that emotional resilience, or even the tools or the words of advice to give. So pat yourself on the back for being able to do that for yourself, and advocating for yourself to be able to get to the point where you could resign. You could apply for a job. And you could take that leap.
Anonymous 6:36
Yeah, absolutely. And having teachers always have teacher friends don't they? I don't know how it happens. Probably more than that, probably because the other half just don't really understand why I dropped off the face of Parliament, I became a teacher, where's the teacher ones do. I only just joined a new school, I didn't know them. They were basically strangers. On day two, when I was sat there going, what is going on? Well, there is like absolute carnage. Like, everywhere, everything is chaos and destruction. And I'm like, What is going on? I was like, I don't want to go to all these new people and be like, I hate my job here with you. Because it feels really personal. And it wasn't. It was just like it was the combination of just maybe like the school just not being the best fit for me. But also just knowing that actually I just don't want to do this anymore. Whereas my teacher friends that weren't in that school, I could go home and be like, I am not okay. And day two, go over to my friend who her house is there. So the window is there. She is through that window. Her house is right there. Go to her house on day two crying my eyes out. Again, I don't know what to do. I've made like, the biggest mistake ever. I literally can't see. I'm throwing up for anxiety. What do I do? And then she could like calm me down and talks some sense into me saying this isn't okay.
Ali 7:47
Yeah. And that's really common in the stories that we've heard from other teachers is that they first made a change, like you just shared that they switch schools, right. So they were thinking maybe it was just the environment that they were in. But shortly after, maybe even a year or two after they realized that wasn't what was impacting them. It was actually the profession itself. And they, they no longer felt like that was where they wanted to be. And I'm really glad like JoDee shared that you had this community. You had friends to go to. You had people to lean on. That really listened to you, and helped you through this this difficult time. I mean, having to plan so far in advance like we do, it's hard. You know, you have to give really advanced notice when you're leaving the classroom. I want to dig a little bit deeper into how you got there. So what was going on? What were the main reasons why you decided to leave the classroom?
Anonymous 8:39
I think just feelings of frustration that you work and you work and you work on something that is really, really hard, and just nothing changes. And you, you change everything you possibly can as a teacher, but nothing changes. And you need that professional support from top down in your school to change something within the school. And it just doesn't happen for whatever reason. You know, there are loads of reasons why things don't happen. But it just doesn't happen. It's just the frustration of like having the same conversations over and over and over again. And it's like, we're the ones in the classroom and we know what needs to change, but you're just not listened to. And the way that the education system is set up. It's just, it just doesn't work.
JoDee 9:28
I think a lot of teachers here in the United States feel that there are a great deal of unrealistic expectations. And do you feel that that is also put on you? Too many demands. It's too unrealistic. It's too much pressure for everyone. So what does... what does that look like in the environment that you've worked in in terms of some of those unrealistic expectations and how it impacts teachers?
Anonymous 9:54
Yeah,completely. Like from day one, you are given additional responsibilities. And unless you take those responsibilities on, like, there's just a constant push for you to take more on and be responsible for more things and get better results every year. And like, it's always like, be better, be better, do more, do more. It's like, you can't do all of those things in the hours that are given to you. And then it just takes over your whole life.
JoDee 10:19
I think it goes to show that like, it's not just an issue that we experience, like in one country, but it can transfer over to other cultures, other countries, other schools. That it's not just an isolated issue. And that we are seeing that. And I think during COVID, a lot of those issues really escalated and the pressures were put on because everybody was looking at teachers, especially with all of these kids at home. And it makes me sad, because we know that teachers are part of what makes the world go round. We know that they are important. And we love teachers. But when we don't take care of teachers, we see more and more people shift out of the profession.
Anonymous 11:01
Absolutely. And it's just, we want what's best for the kids. And when they're forced to work in a way that we know, isn't right for those kids, or we have all these ridiculous things, extra responsibilities given to us that ultimately don't really impact the children that much. It takes our time and energy away from the kids. And that's what's so frustrating. It's like we all became teachers, because we love kids. We love education. We want to make a difference. We want them to have an amazing school experience. There are just so many barriers to us being able to do that. And it's just everybody just burns out.
Ali 11:38
I think that's the problem is it's not sustainable, right? And just so you know, you did make an impact. The six years that you taught, you impacted so many lives. And I think it's important for us to also see educators in that way. I think a lot of times when you see like, oh, I left or I used to be a teacher. There's like this negative connotation like you didn't, you didn't just keep sacrificing or you know, being a martyr all the time. And it's like, no, because we have to look out for our own well being. And the season of life that we're in, like maybe right now is not a good time for someone to be in the classroom, and maybe they will go back. It's not a permanent thing. You don't have to always stay out. But I think what I'm hearing from you is that it was just not sustainable for you to keep doing this. You tried to make a change. And just the demands were overwhelming. You wanted to focus on your students, but you had a lot of extra responsibilities put on you. And I think there is a disconnect between leadership, between administration and teachers sometimes. You have great leaders. Sometimes you have leaders who have just forgotten what it was really like. And it sounds like maybe that could have made the difference for you. But also, it's just one piece of the puzzle, right?
Anonymous 12:57
Yeah, absolutely. I think sometimes from the top down, they forget, because they're not teaching every day they forget. And I think we don't have a teacher recruitment problem. We have a teacher retention problem here. So those teachers that choose to stay in the profession go up so quickly. And like, good for them, like they've clearly worked, you know, really, really hard and they deserve it. They deserve a promotion. That because then all of the leaders have only been teaching for like a few years. It's like who's, who's modeling to them? You know, they've been a leader for all these years that are really, really experienced teacher, they've been head teacher for decades, whatever. Like, I think there's becoming less and less of them left in the profession, because of the way that is. So the leadership that we have coming up, through no fault of their own, they don't have those leaders to model off of, I guess.
JoDee 13:52
We agree. We talk about how the narrative is, it's not accurate. That it's a retention issue that is occurring right now. And people are hustling to recruit teachers and even changing their state laws for who can be in the classroom, but it doesn't resolve the problems and why people are leaving. And so that's where I look to these decision makers and these big leaders who are going to have to just put their foot down and say we really have to do something to help retain teachers and give them sustainable, sustainable work environments.
Ali 14:35
We need a cultural shift. I mean, you can't keep putting these expectations on to teachers. And I think your story is really a great example. Because you left at year six, that the demand start right away. It's not even like you're getting someone who's been a teacher for 15 years, and then you're saying, Well, we know we really need someone to take on this extra responsibility. We know that you've got it together. You know, you've, you've taught the same grade for five years now. Tou have your lesson plans, like you're one of our top performers. Can you do this extra stuff? Which, you know, still you have to have boundaries. But you're taking brand new people, and you're essentially training them to always have an unrealistic work life balance, like from the get go. You need to do all of these extra things if you're going to make it. And that's, that's how I felt, I don't know if that was put on you. But my first year, they told me like, Okay, well, sometimes they have to cut a teacher. And you know, you're an elective teacher. There's two new Spanish teachers this year. So there's a good chance one of you is going to get cut, if we don't have enough students returning. And if you coach an activity, if you do a club, if you do this, they probably won't cut you. And guess what I did all of those things. And I didn't get cut, the other teacher got cut. But my classroom teaching should have been enough. Like I was a good teacher. I did all the things I was supposed to do. It's crazy to me that, you know, those were the determinations. So it's interesting to hear your perspective, knowing that we're not unique in the US to the struggles.
Anonymous 16:09
The perception of, you know, if you don't do those extra things, I mean, nobody queries it anyway. Well, people do start to query it after a while. But not when you're a brand new teacher and your first year of teaching. There's this perception that if you don't do it, you're a terrible person, and you're lazy, and don't really care about kids. Whereas actually, everybody wants to go above and beyond to do extra things in the unpaid hours for these kids. Problem is that all the things we have to do are ridiculous, and they don't impact the kids. So it's just like, I'm happy to do extra things in my own time, off my own back, because I know it's right for my class, but they just demand it. And then they put the pressure on, in terms of your pay, they set targets. I don't know if yours is the same, but they set you targets every year. And they don't.. So before I worked in teaching, I had other jobs. I ended up going to teach and a little bit later than most people do. And your yearly performance management was always called an appraisal in like other jobs. And this one is called performance management, which even sounds horrible. Even sounds like they're telling you everything you're doing wrong. And if you don't do all of the things that they tell you to do, and prove that you're doing all these extra things, then they won't move your pay up. And teacher pay like it's got better now is to do with like...It's interesting what you were saying about them changing the goalposts in America, about the entry requirements to be a teacher, whereas here they've changed the salary. So when you become a teacher, now you earn 30,000 pounds. I don't know what that is in dollars. But I know I calculated that 34 which is what I was on, in my sixth year of teaching is 40,000 US dollars. So six years of teaching, reading all these extra subjects, going off on like week long trips, taking the kids to cities, taking them to London, take them you know, wherever, that's what we're paid. But when I first started teaching, I was on 21,000 pounds, I have no idea what that is in dollars.
JoDee 18:03
It's not a lot. It's well below the average in America.
Anonymous 18:07
So I earned almost the same working as a personal assistant, nine to five, flexi. So I could just you know, if I wanted to go to the beach and go surfing, I could just go if I had hours. There's there's a big festival here. And one year my friends had tickets, and he was like, oh, there's that ticket just drive down. So I was like, okay, cool. So I text my boss in like, in my old job, just saying, I've got some flexi hours, can I just start on Monday lunchtime because I'm probably not gonna be able to draw on Sunday night, I'm probably gonna be over the limit. And she was like, Yeah, that's fine. I was like, cool. So it's just Monday lunchtime. Like, could you imagine? Could you imagine in teaching?
Ali 18:49
No, I think the challenges of being an educator are evident that you don't have a flexible schedule. And when you're going to be out, it's like, so much work to be out that you can't really even enjoy the time off that you're supposed to have, which isn't much. So you really highlighted so many different connections between the US and the UK that are similar. But also I really want to share with our listeners, the different things that you talked about and shared with us maybe even before meeting, some tips on places to go if they're considering exiting the classroom. So first, you talked about LinkedIn, which was great. LinkedIn is such a good resource now. You can find lots of connections there. You can also really beef up your resume and your online presence because people jobs, employers, they search on LinkedIn. You told us about teacher talk and how that helped you, you know, decide. I think, ultimately it helped you decide that this wasn't the right path for you. And then the Facebook group that you mentioned was excellent. It's called Life After Teaching, Exit the Classroom and Thrive. And then lastly, and most importantly, your community. Your friends, the people that you leaned on, were really paramount in supporting your transition leaving the classroom.
JoDee 20:11
I think that you came with some really solid advice. I'm glad that you were able to express what you endured during that time. but how you got to the place that you are. And I think that those steps are going to be really essential in helping someone else possibly go down that same path.
Anonymous 20:29
Yeah. And I kept thinking, it was me. I kept thinking, like, I'm the problem. It's me, but it's not. So what I really helped is like your podcast, and all of the podcasts about quitting teaching, were so helpful because I be getting ready for school like rent press, like Idon't want to go in. Please no. Like feeling the dread, like do I need to throw out from anxiety again, before I leave or can I wait until I get to school? And I listened to your podcasts and just go it you know, it's not just me like it...this is not in my head. This is this is not a me problem. This is a system problem. Everybody is thinking the same way. And yeah, it's not you. So if you are feeling like that, it's not you. You are not the problem.
JoDee 21:11
I think that's a good way to end the podcast right there.
Ali 21:14
I couldn't agree more. Thank you so much for your time today and for joining the show.
Anonymous 21:19
Thank you for having me.
Ali 21:28
If you liked The Great Teacher Resignation, give us a five star rating and follow us on Instagram, Facebook, Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Google Podcasts, Amazon Music and Audible. Today's episode was written and recorded by me Alexandra Simon, and my co host JoDee Scissors. Executive produced by Teacher Brain. Produced and edited by Emily Porter. Original Music: Emoji by Tubebackr. Special thanks to our sponsor, Paper Planes Ed.