Transitioning From the Classroom to a College Campus

Today, Ali and JoDee sit down with Destiny Karash-Givens, a former science teacher who is currently a program manager at Tulane University. Together, they discuss the down side of winning Teacher of the Year, the unrealistic expectations placed upon teachers, and translating teacher brain skills into a new career. 

Connect with Destiny:
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/dify_events/
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/destiny-karash-givens/

Connect with Ali and JoDee:
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/teachershift
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/teachershift
Teacher Shift LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/teacher-shift
Ali’s LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/alisimon/
JoDee’s LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jodeescissors/

Website
https://www.teachershiftpodcast.com/

Episode Transcriptions
https://www.teachershiftpodcast.com/blog

Transcript

Ali  0:00  
All teachers are natural innovators, entertainers and problem solvers. They dream of growing old into the profession, teaching their kids kids. But sometimes career goals shift or change, and that makes opportunities outside of the classroom seem intangible questioning who am I, if I'm not a teacher? I'm your host, Alexandra Simon.

JoDee  0:30  
And I'm your co host, JoDee Scissors.

Ali  0:34  
This is The Great Teacher Resignation.

Today, our guest is Destiny Karash-Givens. Destiny is a former science teacher of six years, and is currently a program manager at Tulane University. Although leaving teaching was a tough decision for her, it was the best choice she made for her financial and personal life. Welcome to the show today, Destiny.

Destiny  1:02  
Thanks for having me.

Ali  1:03  
So Destiny when you connected with us, you shared that being teacher of the year was the worst thing that ever happened to you. And I have to say, I am so intrigued to hear your story. So take it away.

Destiny  1:17  
Okay. I want to preface it by saying it was an honor to be teacher of the year because I had only been teaching. It was my third year that I got it. And I was only at that school for two years. And so when they came in my room with flowers, I was like did my mom send these? Because she always gets a coupon, so she always sends flowers. So I was like, Thanks, Mom. And then they were like, No, like you like won by a landslide. And I was like, holy cow, like what. And so it was really, really great. And I got told that in October of 2019. And then we had like the big ceremony in February of 2020, at the end of February. And I was feeling really sick during the ceremony and had like a fever and everything. And then COVID shut the world down two weeks later. So it was like, I definitely probably had COVID during that time. But I say that because there is a certain mindset that teachers already have. And then when given this type of award or than put on a pedestal, it only increases from there. So I felt that I had to do more all the time. And so with that year, we shut down obviously. And I felt like it was my duty, like I owed this as teacher of the year to like help everyone and do this and do that. And what I was doing was essentially extending myself more than I could because I had my plate. And then I had other plates around me that were just over flowing. And I was just realizing that this is the absolute worst thing that could have happened to me because I am a person when given a title, I take it and I run with it. And I take it very seriously. And I loved everyone that I worked with, and they knew they could come to me. And I feel like during that time here like destiny knows its destiny knows its destiny knows its destiny will help us with this. And I always did. And it was really hard for me to like, set that boundary and I was like listening to one of your episodes about like, quiet quitting. I was like, I should have quiet quit then. But it just it was the absolute worst thing that I feel like happened to me because I took that pedestal and like put myself up on that pedestal and did not step off of it until I realized the toll that had actually taken on me was not a positive one at all, like the positive title came with a negative lifestyle and workstyle and everything else.

JoDee  3:37  
What I think is important about your story is you one teacher of the year during your three, right. And that's very early on in a teacher's career. And I think something they don't teach new teachers is how to set boundaries. And I feel the same connection because in year three of me teaching I one teacher of the year at my school, and I don't think I was a unicorn, like I wasn't the best reading teacher wasn't the best math teacher but I had my hands and everything. If there was something happening there were like, God, I'll do it. God will do it. And I did it. And I learned over time, you know, staying late until 9pm, where building services is escorting me out for safety, like making sure I get to my car safely. And doing everything I could after school, I realized it wasn't sustainable. And that even though like I had this little bit of status, I felt like I had to keep up with I realized, actually, it's not healthy, and I shouldn't keep doing that.

Destiny  4:36  
Yep, it was like the later that you stayed, the more work you did, the better you were, the more recognition that you'd get. I remember texting my friends being like I'm the last one in the parking lot today and like thinking that was cool. And now I'm like, I want to be like the first one to leave the parking lot and be able to do that and feel with okay with it. 

Ali  4:55  
Yeah, I think that that's really one of the problems with new educators is that they're told, you know, to do all of these extra things. Like, I remember the first school that I taught at, and actually, every subsequent school, I was always like the new person. So, okay, you have to at least coach at least one sport, have a club after school, like all these extra things that you were just expected to do. Some of them came with a stipend, but some of them didn't. And that's on top of all of the other things that you're doing. And when you're a public school teacher, like you have so many students, you're grading so many papers. So I think just from the get go, there's a lot of these unrealistic expectations for like, a healthy work life balance. And then that's all you know, like, you think that's just what teaching is, and you keep going. And then it sounds like, you know, winning these accolades, really pushed you to like, feel that pressure even more, perhaps in your case. And it's, it's hard.

Destiny  5:54  
It's funny that you say that, because when you're like, applying for schools, or like applying for the jobs, like you do all your questions, and what not. And then there's a whole page dedicated to what else are you willing to do for free on your own time, that's like two, three hours after school. And like, it has a little red asterisk on it saying, please select one. Like, you don't have the option to not not pick one. And I think that's also like, where it starts. Because when you're learning about being a teacher in school, or like, if you're doing a certification program, they teach you so much, but like, it's all about like pedagogy and how to like, psychologically act with children and like, kind of being that person. But it's like, you're being that person for others. It's never a moment of being that person for yourself, which I think needs to change somewhere in that process.

JoDee  6:41  
And you approach the profession in that scope, like you're like, I want to be the best at this, I want to keep getting better at this. And you're not really reflecting on your health or your well being. Or if you should really take the day off, because you have a fever. You know, you're thinking about student impact, really like that's your number one focus. But how to gain the balance of achieving both that and having a healthy teacher at school every day.

Destiny  7:10  
Yes, and I bet y'all have felt the same way. But like, taking off of do work is more work than not going to work.

Ali  7:18  
That is the catch 22 right there. Because you can't just not go to work when you're a teacher. You can't just call out sick completely. You have to have some sort of a plan in place. And actually, special shout out to my former department chair Donna, because she taught me something at my second school that I taught at which was always have emergency sub lesson plans for at least two days, ready to go in your desk. That first drawer, you can have your student rosters, which sometimes do change, but like that saved me. And then when those would get used up, I would try to replace them. Sometimes I forgot. But like, it's so stressful when you have to be out. And I know those lessons probably weren't perfectly aligned with what we were learning at the time. But but they were, you know, content specific. So I think that it's really, really challenging when you're trying to do all these things. And we're all prioritizing the students, right? That's what we're doing. We're prioritizing the students, and we're not prioritizing the people that serve the students. And if they're not healthy and well, then they're not going to be able to serve the students in the best way possible. And it's not going to be sustainable in the long run. I mean, I think it's really, really difficult to go from doing all of those things in the classroom and outside of the classroom. Scaling back to me seemed like, impossible. You know, how do you let go of all of those extras? And at the time, it really did seem impossible to me. It was like an all or nothing. And ultimately, that was part of why I ended up leaving was because I knew I couldn't be the teacher I was in that moment and care for my family. And so that's why I left. But in thinking about going back, it was hard to say there's a lot more out there now about things like quiet quitting or like boundaries. And if we can try to reprioritize like what teachers should be doing, perhaps we can get people to be able to stay in the classroom longer, in a healthier environment. But I want to also hear about your journey leaving the classroom and how you ended up in your role. So can you tell us a little bit more about what ultimately led you to make the decision to leave the classroom even with having a great boss like you shared with us?

Destiny  9:34  
So I taught for six years, and I did... I don't know, like familiarity with New Orleans schools, but there's charter, there's public out in the suburbs, and then there's private. I hit all three. I was like, let me really see like, let me see if it's me. Let me see if it's them. Let me see if it's the system, whatever. So my first year was in a charter school, the middle four years were in a public school, and then the last year was like, let me go to private school. Because my years after COVID, I had 180 students on my roster. And then when I went to the private school, I had 30 students in the entire fourth grade, and I had half of them. So it's like, this could be a life changer. And it totally, totally was. Like I truly love teaching. And I think it is, I can't put it to words, because I saw my mom do it. And she still does it. And she loves it. And once you have those awesome teacher skills, they never go away. But when I went to the private school from the public school, my boss was still amazing. My co teacher was still amazing. But I was still driving to work sitting in my car for 10 minutes debating do I want to go in. Having those tears. Calling my mom and saying I don't know what it is, I just like, cannot do it. But I realized it was preventing me from doing all the things that I wanted to do. And I couldn't go hang out with my friends because I had all these papers to grade. Or I couldn't go do this because I was at school till seven o'clock doing parent teacher meetings or doing this and doing that. And it really, really, really took a toll on me. And in my family birthdays are a big, big deal. And I hadn't been to like my mom's birthday in years. Like I hadn't seen her on her birthday in years. And I was like, I love this job, but I hate who I've become because of it and the lack of boundaries that I have. And so I like had a really, like big sit down with my boss at my last school. And I was like sobbing in her face, in my classroom. And I just remember her putt, I was like, I believe in mid year, I can't do this anymore. And I remember her just like putting her hand on my shoulder and be like, Okay, give me time to find your replacement. But do what you need to do. You know, I was like, I came back, this was before winter break and I came back. I was like, I can't do that to the children. I can't do that to you like all of your way too good to me. I'm going to stay until May, but I'm not. I can't do it. She goes, Are you sure? Are you sure you're just not happy, because you just said two weeks off, and you're coming back fresh. And I was like, I'll check in with you again after Mardi Gras. I was like, I want to stay like I just can't do it again next year. And she was like, Okay, like, we're so happy you're staying, the kids are going to be so happy, the parents are gonna be so happy. But when they came, I was like, I did not re-sign my contract. I did not have a plan. I did not have anything. And so I just sat all summer and I applied, I applied. I took a break when it was getting to be too much. And I really just leaned in, on the skills that I have in really focused on that. Because teaching gives you so many skills. And it really makes you put others first too, where you're putting your resume out there. And you're like, I don't know how to talk good about myself because I'm supposed to be so like poised and humble. But I really focused on doing that and applied to the position that I'm in now. And I'm so grateful that they were like, we totally see the alignment between you being a teacher and running programs and managing programs. And I went in for the interview and what like four weeks later, three weeks later, I was like, they're not gonna call me they're not gonna call me. And then they called me. And I was like, see what happens when you just lean on faith.

JoDee  13:11  
Yes, that's something to share with people, and my husband worked at a university for a really long time, and the application process and the interview process, it takes a long time. So as teachers, like principals call you, they're like, we want you. Because they don't want anybody else to take you. And even though HR has not submitted and done any of their part, a principal will secure your position for you. Whereas at a university, you do have a lot of that wait time. And that's something that is very unfamiliar, I think.

Destiny  13:41  
Yes. And there's a lot of hoops and whatnot to go through. Whereas like in schools, you're like, Oh, we see this and you do this, we're gonna snatch you up now and then go through the process. Whereas like, it's a whole new world outside of education for hiring and getting an interview and the application process.

Ali  13:58  
Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I think hearing you share that whole story about how you approached leaving, and you were honest with your school. They were very understanding and it did take time for you to find a new job. But having that summer probably helped. I think also realizing that you had all these teacher brain skills that you could leverage. It sounds like in your resume, maybe in a cover letter, in your interview. It's so key. And I think institutions, academic institutions, for sure can recognize the traits and the teacher brain skills that educators bring because they have a lot of those on their campus. So I think that's a really welcoming place for former teachers. That was actually one of the areas I thought I might want to go into myself when I was thinking about leaving teaching. But I did want to circle back to you know how you talked a little bit about going from the public school where you had you know about had 180 students, which is actually what I had for many years. And then going down to having, you know, the whole fourth grade class was 30. And I think for teachers who are listening who kind of feel overwhelmed, when I switched from public to private, it did help me a lot. Like it took down my stress. The number of papers that I had to grade because I went from having 180, to about 70 students total. I taught high school Spanish. It didn't take away everything, though, you know? I still had the pressure to do the extracurriculars. And to show up to different things. A lot of it was because I wanted to, like, you know, I love the culture of my school. But I do think that for teachers who are considering reprioritizing, or looking for another way to stay in education, that making a change like that, I heard it a little bit in your story can be helpful, or can be a good step to take to really see, okay, maybe it's my environment, maybe if I am in a situation where I can have a smaller, you know, teacher to student ratio then that will benefit me. So I did hear that in your journey. But ultimately, I also saw a lot of connections between you and JoDee because JoDee you loved your students. You loved teaching, and it wasn't working for you.

JoDee  16:07  
It's the students, it's the toughest part. Like you feel so connected to them. It really broke my heart, big time. But I was glad to hear that you said that your principal, when you were breaking down, she just like touched your back and was like empathetic about the situation. I always had really great administrators. And it wasn't because they pushed me professionally, it was because they cared about me. And I think that is a struggle that some teachers are having right now based on the messages that we get, is having a not so great administrator. And that doesn't really help, you know, wanting to stay in the profession. And so I'm really glad that you experienced that. And that you know that it's out there, and that there are leaders who care about teachers as a person. And that's really essential right now, to, I believe teacher retention. Just making sure teachers are okay. 

Destiny  17:02  
And a lot of them are okay. They just need someone to check on them and say, I am here for you. I know this is a professional environment, but like, I'm still here for you as a human being. And I am so grateful that every space that I entered during my time in the classroom was very much so validated. I felt very comfortable going to every boss I've ever had, even my one now is amazing. So it's just really, I think a lot of administrators that aren't so great to their people forget that they were once teachers and forget, like the process of what it's like to be a teacher, and especially how it's just getting harder and harder and harder. So just empathy goes a really, really long way.

Ali  17:45  
So you did talk a little bit about the skills that were transferable from your education career. And I'm wondering which teacher brain skills do you use in your new job?

Destiny  17:56  
I was a science teacher, but always loved numbers and math. I do a lot of data right now. And like tracking data with students and seeing like, because we're at a university, so looking at retention and things like that. But also I use a lot of my organizational and planning and programming skills. So when I was in middle school, doing my middle school stint, I was over student council over student council and I was over science fair. So a lot of those organizational skills, putting things together, sending out emails, like your administrative sit at a desk and type tasks. A lot of people hate those, I love those. Give me an Excel sheet, give me an email. It's my jam. It's so fun, and like organizing and planning, and putting things out there and talking to people. That's really my new position. I would say a lot of data, a lot of numbers and a lot of administrative things that we do on a day to day basis in a classroom.

Ali  18:51  
So one of the things I think that teachers struggle with is that they have those skills, right? They know how to do all those things, because maybe they're in a plan learning community and they analyze data across, you know, the grade that they're in. They struggle with communicating that, like putting that in their resume, making sure that's highlighted in their LinkedIn profile, putting it in a cover letter. So I'm wondering, I mean, you obviously secured a job, but do you have any suggestions on how a teacher might be able to leverage those skills that they do have in a resume on LinkedIn, or maybe in an interview, something that helped you?

Destiny  19:26  
First thing I did was like looking outside in and I was like, What job do you want? And as put yourself in the boss's shoes and how would you tailor a resume to go that way? And then I just realized, I'm not good at selling myself because being a teacher, I just like, I'm not used to it. And I don't know what to do and I need help. And I am very much a person that is like, I will ask for help in whatever way possible. So I looked and I got someone to help me right a resume, and I got someone to help me write a cover letter because it's like, I don't know where to even start. And they were like, you have so many, like so many things. I was like, No, I don't, like not me. And they were very, very helpful and bringing those things to life. And really capitalizing on the data. Because we would track data from benchmark tests, we would track data from, like, the tests that the students would take in over a semester, see how their grade increased, or see how it decreased and why. And like, those are really big skills that are needed in certain jobs. And so I had someone sit down with me and write it out, and then help me write a cover letter. So like, I would write a cover letter, and they'd go back in and say, You sound a little unsure about this in this sentence right here. Make it confident. And so that was really, really helpful to me, because I, like I said, did not know how to market myself. And I feel like having someone else like doing a mock interview, or just reaching out to people and saying, Hey, can I talk to you about this position? Like, I don't want to interview with you, and I may not necessarily be interested in your company. But can I learn more about what you do so I can see if it aligns with what I want to do in the future? It was a lot of me just like taking risks and being 100% okay with hearing the word no. Because behind the yes, that I got for this position, I swear we're like 75 to 100 nos within that span of a summer.

Ali  21:19  
Really great advice to seek help from your network, and even maybe outside of your network. I think that's key. As teachers, you know, we really are stuck in this, like teachers schoolhouse community. And so we need to reach outside of that to leverage all the resources that we have and to prepare ourselves for a career transition. And as difficult as it was for you to to have all those no's that led up to this one yes. Now you're there. And I think what I've seen with other teachers when they transition is it's about getting that first job outside of the classroom. So thank you so much for being on the show today, Destiny.

Destiny  21:56  
Thanks for having me. It's just so much fun.

Ali  21:58  
If you'd like to connect with destiny, you can find her at dify_events. That's d i f y underscore events.

If you liked The Great Teacher Resignation, give us a five star rating and follow us on Instagram, Facebook, Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Google Podcasts, Amazon Music, and Audible. Today's episode was written and recorded by me Alexandra Simon, and my co host JoDee Scissors. Executive produced by Teacher Brain. Produced and edited by Emily Porter. Original Music: Emoji by Tubebackr. Special thanks to our sponsor, Paper Planes